What happened to the bulldogs, when did the ADBA change its standard????????????

I thought ADBA folks were okay with letting dogs, be dogs, instead of prissy little show things. And when you let dogs be dogs, scars happen. I hope not all ADBA shows are like that.

 

In 6 years I've never seen anybody asked to leave because of scarred dogs. I'm not saying it has never or can't happen, but I've seen that bad and worse scarred dogs at a show. It really shocks me it would happen at the Tristate show. Some good bulldog folks run that club.

 

I agree that they are good people and I never had any animosity toward them, I believed that there was someone at the show 'watching' and it was more of a 'heads-up for me! I should have mentioned that in the first post.....senior moment!

 

The answer to the original question is simple. You have judges going on what they think a bulldog should look like. Just look at what they have done to beagles. I've been around running beagles my whole life and never seen one look like an AKC champion. It is just the natural progression conformation showing. Never been to an ADBA show, but I've been to a couple of fun shows and an AADR show. These were judged by long retired dogmen and I have to say I the dogs that placed looked like bulldogs. Each judge had different taste, but the only difference was placement. One judges first place was the other's third. Also someone said that they thought the ADBA was for letting dogs be dogs. You couldn't be more wrong. All they are worried about is keeping the gravy train rolling. I bet when benthere had that ADBA champion the judges were at some point dogmen or at least been around working dogs. As opposed to taking some judging class.

 

That's good to know. I suppose it don't matter much to me anyhow what goes on in NJ shows, I'm far from there.

 

I will have I have seen lots of dogs in my area that I wouldn't dream of bringin out in the condition they were in and no one says anything show after show. They are at all of them

 

I haven't been showing nearly as long, but I've only seen a dog asked to leave once and that was because it tried to eat the judge. And the only time I've seen dogs receive negative attention, it was well-deserved (Cuz who the hell tries to show emaciated, mangy dogs?).

However, times are a'changing and some folks (And the clubs they run) are being targeted by some serious whackjobs. So, I can kinda understand the image control.

 

I've often wondered this too; and the conclusion I've come to is that for Greyhounds, pure physical ability/structure that relates to pure speed ONLY is what is so important and pretty much overcomes everything else. Of course they have to WANT to run, but that is not that difficult a characteristic to breed into and maintain in dogs as it's a pretty natural dog thing! A Greyhound with great desire but less than optimal conformation for SPEED is not going to do well because it's sport depends so much on pure SPEED (proper conformation).

Gameness is mainly a MENTAL thing, no? It doesn't depend so much on physical ability as say a Greyhound does....
AND, gameness is a very unnatural thing, so it's harder to breed for an hang on to...therefore most breeders will take it when they can get it no matter what conformation the dog has...

That being said, in general I think the short-legged, short-muzzled, big-boned, thick-muscled, basketball-headed dogs are NOT going to be the athlete that the more moderate dog is; and that the more moderate build is going to be an advantage for a dog that is game .

 

Yea, I think gameness is something that can partially overcome physical disadvantages and it's a trait that breeders will try to keep, maybe sometimes despite perfect conformation. Yet some of the working dogs posted in this thread do look nicely balanced between extremes of build.

In regard to the ADBA, the dog should look sturdy, three dimensional, giving an impression of strength, not look frail, be square and heavy boned, athletic but not bulky, and have a height to weight ratio such that the tallest dog at a given weight is desired. See here: http://www.adbadog.com/uploads/conformation%20_%20weightpull%20pic/2008%20conformationBreakdwn.pdf

I think the tallest dog for a certain weight could conflict with heavy boned and sturdy. This is probably where judges themselves could get confused. I guess the tallest dog for its weight is the ADBA way of trying to show that winning dogs weren't short tanks. Yet this can be taken too far as well, as suggested by the thread starter.

 

i'll be bringin both tall and long and old school to our next show i expect the same results we'll see,, and now that we slaped a few lbs on our black male before he goes to his winter keep at our godfather's farm he looks shortened up a little sucks i put him in a different aera and he scratched his face a little on the gate he'll be healed soon before we bring him

 

Oh, I agree about the ADBA dogs going the "too fine" direction. Whereas the AKC dogs are getting too stocky and short-legged, the ADBA dogs have gone just the other direction. That is the problem with conformation standards -- eventually the dogs tend to go to one extreme or another -- almost always.

I too have always wondered if there wasn't some Whippet thrown in there and I noticed it in particular back when the ADBA had that version of their standard that called for a "roach" back....(the standard once did say that, didn't it?)

yeah....

 

a few of the ways i like bulldogs put together

boyles bitch:


boyles/jeep/rb/jocko dog:


son of hunter red:

 

I have never seen it either.

Our friend's dog is missing half his ear and still shows not a problem. Actually took 2 firsts the last time they showed him.

 

yes. winner, no ch

 

Someone post up 176398 please, ive seen this dog at many a show and he took a few ribbons home too, lol.

 

I'd say this is the way they should look...

 

This had to be said again!


The way I see it, the dogs are getting too narrow & rangey. Too much emphasis has been put on the wrong type of athleticism. Their original purpose was more like wrestling than like ballet dancing. They need to be muscular and strong with big powerful shoulders and necks but instead they are becoming tall and skinny and narrow. I have often heard show people say that historically the most athletic dog won, which may be true, but it must be the right kind of athleticism. I bet you a wrestler would last longer doing ballet than a ballet dancer would last wrestling. JMHO.

I had a friend their who was a good terrier man & not a bulldog man and he also commented on the fact that most of the dogs looked like whippets.