What happened to the bulldogs, when did the ADBA change its standard????????????

so basically you prefer a well ballanced not extreme dog . i like the look of butcher boy and gumps go that next dog you put up has good bone but maybe it"s the angle of the photo ,he"s leaning forward and makes him look stubby,nice though

 

Bettlejuice is a fine example of form and fucntion. The ADBA standard didn't change, the eyes doing the judging did. Shouldn't let someone else's opinion of your dog make or break your decesion on them. I've seen dogs place that look like rat terriers in the champ class, and I have seen real bulldogs placed too. I think, if the standard is changing, its because alot of people have the same mind set as Naustrom, "i got bulldogs, I'm not showing no dogs here"......(no offense Naus). If people brought bulldogs to these shows, they would get placed. Alot of the judges I've met, know a bulldog when they see one, and alot of times, they pick trash, cause thats all thats being showed. I don't beleive in breeding just for conformation, but it has its purposein the dogs.

 

The judges look for what they "think" could have been a winner in the old days based on ADBA confirmation. The ADBA keeps "the most dog @ the lightest weight" in mind , so in turn look down on short leg overly thick boned dogs. Any old timers would/will tell you "you can't tell by looking @ them" thats why they played the game , to see what's beyond the pretty shell !

 

I hear ya Mac,....but, ten years or so years ago,...there was one of two ADBA shows in my area held by a club that folded soon after, I got to speak/email with two of the "celebrity judges" and I was so excited I begged a bud of mine to bring the littermate of this bitch I had to the show. He said ok, and we met up. Now, these dogs came from an active litter, and my bitch had a couple of two or three puncture marks in the shoulder from my Rottie correcting her too hard as a pup that never filled in nicely, and his had a few small hairless marks in the stifle. As we stood talking in the parking lot talking and waiting to show,...a "show official" walked up and informed us that our dogs didn't look appropriate for the show. Now,....I'm talking about two absolutely untouched yearlings with just a couple of marks from puppy life on them. Not torn up, not different aged scars,...nothing of the sort. But, the powers that were felt our dogs looked..........."suspicious and inappropriate" for the show...."with the media and all."

I haven't paid to enter an ADBA show since,...much less entered a dog in one. The last one I saw was like an AKC show only with skinny dogs, two inch collars and sticks for sale in the booths; that was the only difference. Everywhere you went you saw people popping their dogs for looking at other dogs funny. Some folks I know give the same reason for not bringing good looking real bulldogs to the ADBA show ring--"sorry...but my dog has a couple scars."

So, anyway this may only be my experience and how things were done in my neck of the woods,....but if this attitude/occurance, in any way, represents what may be happening elsewhere out there..even occasionally,..........I'm not surprised that more people with real bulldogs....that look like it.....don't bother to go to the shows.

But, like I said,...maybe it was just me. Maybe my outfit clashed with my dog's coat or something....who knows

 

From what I've seen (with the exception of facing them off) over the last 2yrs they allow the dog to fire off in the confirmation ring. I lost to a dog covered in life's hard lessons in CA , he took 1st in 3-5m. If you leave your ego @ home and go just to have fun , see friends and to support a positive outlet (image) for the media. Plus providing a reason for owning a APBT other than what they (media) want the public to believe. Is all there worth IMO.

 

I would say a lot of the dogs that I see winning look like show dogs more than bulldogs but I have one that looks like a bulldog, acts like a bulldog and has perfect conformation to go with it and she almost always gets a blue so they can win. I like to win but dogs bred for conf are gonna beat dogs bred for anything else in a conf show usually so I don't take it personal. At the end of the day I enjoy being around dogs and people that understand them more than the ribbons

 

IDK bet he would. There were some offspring of that dog, maybe grand children, don't remember for sure, that did very well at that show where we met.

 

My guess is that dog would do good showing also.

 

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=226848

Some say this guy is too short but I think he is built the way you like em.

Do you think this girl of mine looks too rangey?? I showed her there on saturday.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=320504

 

I think when ADBA would change their standards in favor of the "showpeople" we will just get another Amstaff type...
Now just to join the last posts... I always found Watt's Double Snort very impressive ;-)

 

Im no expert but i thought ADBA standard was based in gamedogs/performers. Dogs that are balanced in all ways, with good bone and muscle tone and with the right propotions and angles. This means a dog with poor angles will need more muscle mass to do the same workout as other that has the right (toehold) and leverage with less muscle.

 

standars change al the time

 

you are exactly right benthere. the only difference in what we feed and the amstaffs is time, and the reason for making breedings. remember, they came down from the same dogs that we can trace ours back to, the only difference is that they stopped breeding for gameness and started breeding for a "good looking" type of dog. what you may have noticed is just evolution of the dogs being bred for show and no go.

 

couple things-
judging is just that, judging. it is one persons view for the standard applied. one judge may think highly of a dog, while another judge never gives it a second glance.
not once have i ever heard of a judge asking how a dog was bred...maybe in conversation after the show was over, but never in the ring.
and for those who feel the shows are going away from real bulldogs, i can only say this- bring them out or you have no basis for complaint. its like people who dont vote. want to make your voice heard? show up with a dog.
for me, i will still bring my rangey, whippet-esque bulldogs to shows as long as i am able.

 

Very well said!

 

What happened to the bulldogs, when did the ADBA change its standard????????????

Same thing that happened to the Amstaff you breed for the show ring for so long and focus on breeding conformation dogs you start to loose working ability.

 

Great grandson: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=5372

Great grandfather: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=5372

g-grandfather is a more slightly-built dog, and notice the topline difference.

Yet both dogs apparently good athletes.

Stormer: http://www.game-bred.com/game-bred-hall-of-fame.htm#Champion_Stormer_(E

Theoretically, a thick dog is shorter for the same weight, will retain more heat due to less surface area per pound of weight, will have to work uphill, and will be less agile, but it may have greater brute strength and durability of limbs in a punishing situation. If dogs get too short, proper angulation may suffer. I have seen show dogs (AKC) in which the height of the torso (from chest up to withers) was greater than the distance from the chest to the ground. In other words, they had short legs.

Yet I am still somewhat surpised that there is a fairly big range of conformation types that have done well. You would not, at least I don't think you would, see as much variety of types in the top winning greyhounds of various time periods.

Have there been any famous working dogs that are/were thick, short, and had short muzzles? How about thick, short, great big heads and short muzzles? If so, then I'm really going to be confused. In other words, the blend of bull and terrier is generally in the middle, but different people have different ideas of where the middle lies. An AKC judge may see a beefier and bullier dog as being correctly built. An ADBA judge may see a dog that is taller for its weight and relatively terrier as the correct build.

Are there any physical features that all winning working dogs have had? I was going to say two working eyes, but even that has been missing from some dogs. All four legs? But there was three legged Willie who was a go-getter. An actual physical body, well what about the winning dog from the other side, Ectoplasm? He was out of this world...