To those that hit their dogs.....

Well I must be a horrible person and dog owner because I do think there are situations when a dog needs to be swatted. Not beaten or abused but I do mean an attention getter. It is a rare thing for me but some dogs do need a swat every now and then. I have one that needed it alot untill he was about 10 months old ( hard headed alpha male ) , then I have another that I just raise my voice and she listens and is submissive.

When do I think hitting a dog is acceptable?

Food aggression toward a human
Any aggression toward me (I dont mean playful aggression ) at any age.
Refusal to submit or listen to a firm voice when commanded to due something such as NO or Down or Stop.


Yes there should be respect shown to owner. Some dogs naturally have this in them and some dont! However I absolutely hate it when people hit and kick there dogs for every little thing under the sun. My father and I almost went to blows when I has a teenager for the simple fact that he kicked my dog any time it was near his feet or in his way. He had this thing about a dog being under or near his feet that made him flip out for some reason. He would kick the heck out of them too.....it still irks me to this day.

I hate when people anthropromorphize everything though. Humans and dogs are not the same and training a dog and raising a child should not be equated. I do however think it is proper and a good thing to spank your kids fwiw.

 

Hi everyone! I am new here and I have strong feelings about hitting your dogs.I believe anyone that hits , injures or does anything stupid to get thier dog hurt needs to have the same thing done to them. Your dog shows you absolute love and respect and only asks some food,water and some exercise in return.

 

you arent horrible,its just a matter of a swat on the butt vs beating a dogs head into the ground for stealing cat food.For instance I just know walked out to the living room and my Aussie was in the process of destroying the couch cushion,the very same cushion he got yelled at earlier and yesterday for messing with.Oh yeah,he got a spank for that.Sorry this is off subject,but when I heard the noise of the tearing apart I went to the living room and ty the aussie was sitting in the middle of a pile a fluff still enjoying himself ,caught red handed!But Izzy ran into the other room and got in her crate ,after I scolded ty I went back into the computer room ,when Izzy saw the spanking was over she ran over to me and she had a piece of fluff hanging from her mouth:rolleyes: .

 

If the point of the "swat" is to surprise the dog and get him/her to listen, then a voice command or a yell should work just as well. So what's the point? The reason I hate swatting is that I think it usually demeans a dog and damages the dog/owner bond. Plus, people seem to continually swat harder and harder because it doesn't solve the underlying problem - AND it takes a pretty hard hand to actually make a bulldog take notice or feel pain, especially if they are excited. So the dog may think at first that the hitting is part of a game, and the owners just keep hitting. We all agree that beating the shit out of a puppy is horrible, but where do you draw the line in terms of the age of the dog and how hard you hit?

Usually if effort is put in toward training and building a relationship, then swatting is not necessary. So I associate it with frustrated people who have no clue about effective training and no desire to learn to do things better. Not saying that's the case with anyone here, just my experience.

And I've definitely ended friendships (and other relationships) with people who smack their dogs (and my dogs!) It isn't that the hitting itself is such a huge deal - but it means we have a completely different understanding of how we live with dogs, and that is something that's very important to me and I'd rather be around people who don't hit dogs.

In terms of rolling dogs, that's just a whole different question. Historically speaking, the idea was to see if a dog wanted to fight a competitor. Completely different than a human causing a dog physical pain. You may disagree with that, but it should tell you something that so many people here who admire gamedogs aren't down with hitting them.

 

I agree with you. IMO if the voice command doesn't work, then it's a reflection of your training with the dog and a sign that obedience work needs to be done on a daily basis.

Also, for "swatting" a dog on the but that you catch going to the bathroom on the floor, it's pointless. What you should be doing is telling that dog "NO" or "Ah", picking it up mid-duty, and carrying it outside all the while emphasizing outside and potty. Once you put the dog down in the grass and he finishes his business, then voice rewards are in order. If you didn't do any of this and just popped the puppy on the butt, honestly what would that dog learn?.....not to go to the bathroom in front of you & instead go hide somewhere in your house to do so.

EDIT: I want to mention that I'm not speaking in terms of aggression issues and a dog trying to attack you. IMO that's a whole other topic. As for food aggression, I can vouch that hitting the dog isn't going to solve anything other than make it more protective of not just it's food and overly defensive.

 

Are you accusing me of dogfighting? No, I grew up with this guy and I won't hesitate to take anyone out of my life if they "beat the shit out of their puppy" (in their own words). I can give a shit if we have things in common. I have things in common with thousands of people. Why should I continue being friends with someone who beats the crap out of an 8 week puppy? Because we have things in common? You are out of your mind.

Sounds to me that you have no problem with beating on a puppy. If that is the case, I'll call you a piece of shit also and wouldn't have anything to do with you either.

I have never made any comment that would remotely give you reason to assume that I think rolling a puppy is OK or any animal for that matter. In fact, if he fought his pup I would be just as pissed. Take your bullshit accusations elsewhere. Making accusations such as this can get people in a lot of trouble.

 

You two make an excellent point.

 

I agree with this completely. The day I brought Dante home at 8 weeks old I set out to housebreak him as quickly as possible- so I took it upon myself to only let him walk/run/sniff/explore outside and keep him fairly still inside. When he was inside I kept him on my lap or in his crate sleeping (which was at this point very small and cozy so he wouldn't want to pee in it)...literally the first week or so I had him I would only let him walk around in the grass outside and not on the floor inside- he never even got the urge/chance to pee in the house the first week. Pups of course tend to pee after they wander around at will sniffin', exploring and whatnot for a few moments- so eliminate that opportunity and there are no accidents. Yes, it is labor intensive and you go outside with them 15 times a day, but they catch on so quick. Note- I was 7 months pregnant with my son at the time and didn't have anything better to do.

The puppy must earn his freedom to wander around in the house. Pretty good rule of thumb to follow. If there is an accident, well- it's our fault for allowing the puppy to wander around too much without taking him outside.

Dante was yelping to go outside and pee by the time he was 10 weeks old...this is no exaggeration. Even at nighttime. The more you put into it (without swatting) = the more you get out of it.

 

Hmmm. Some people just have high expectations of those they associate with. Not a bad trait.

As a horse trainer, I won't accept clients who want me to impose certain methods I think are cruel and asinine- and I stand to make money in that situation. So if I can refuse to accept income because I don't approve of the way people treat their horses, it wouldn't be shiat for me to tell a friend "see ya" over the way they treat their dog.

Call me a snob, but I don't associate with people who prove themselves to be ignoramuses. No matter how long I've been friends with them. Buh bye.

As for the insinuations you made about Tommy being "hypocritical"...that just couldn't have hit further from the mark, and also could get someone in trouble- aren't we reading the newspapers these days? :rolleyes:

 

Did I accuse you of dog fighting? No! I believe you misunderstood. I asked if you would feel the same way if you saw he had rolled an adult dog and it had caused the dog physical pain. I do not know you and do not know what you think is OK and what is not OK. A simple "yes" or "no" would have done the trick. The reason I asked is because I am trying to understand how one type of physical pain is different from another. You did not have to get so riled up, but my apologies to you if I offended you. Thank you for your answer.

As for your accusations.....I do not abuse my dogs, nor do I fight them. You're more than welcome to come and take a look for yourself any time you're in the area.
As for the friend thing, we all see things and handle them in a different way. I'm not downing you for feeling the way you do.

LuvinBullies, yes I do read the paper. Did you read my post? Cause I don't see where I accused him of anything. Better yet....since you seem to have all the answers.....can you tell me how one type of physical pain is different from another? Can you tell me how, historically speaking, a person could roll their dog knowing it might get hurt pretty bad.....but then turn and say abusing an animal isn't right because it causes physical pain? Isn't the end result in both situations bad for the dog?

 

When you abuse a dog, it is feeling pain at your hands. Back in the day, when people still rolled dogs, the dog was feeling pain by another dog. Professional dog matching was not abuse. It was just like what happens when two deer or two bears get in a fight in the woods. Its instictive for them to fight. A dog loves its master, and a game-dog loved to fight. That being said, it hurts the dog emotionally and phisically when beaten by a man where as when in the box, it was just doing what a match-dog loved to do back then. Granted, Im sure there was pain involved, but not by the hands of its master. Its just like you going out in the street and getting in a fight..That might hurt you a little bit but not like getting the hell beaten out of you by your father...You get it?

 

Thank you! I am going to PM you, as I have questions and appreciate your intelligent, non hostile answers.

 

JUST MY $.02 ON THE ISSUE. I USE A PLASTIC 20oz SODA BOTTLE. ITS FILLED %25 OF THE WAY WITH UNPOPPED CORN KERNNELS. I USE A FIRM "NO!", AND A SHAKE OR TWO OF THE BOTTLE, AND THAT WILL USUALLY CONVEY MY DISSAPPOINTMENT. I ALSO FOLLOW UP WITH POSITIVE RIENFORCEMENT LIKE HAPPY / CONGRADULATORY PRAISE WHEN THE DOGS DOES GOOD. MY OLDEST IS CLOSE TO 10YRS OLD. HE IS A RAMBUCTIOUS BALL OF FIRE TILL THIS DAY, YET HE FEARS DISSAPOINTING ME, MORE THAN BEING HIT. YOU COULD THREATEN HIM WITH A BASEBALL BAT AND HE WON'T BLINK, YET I CAN GET THE BOTTLE ( PRETEND I'M LOOKING FOR IT), A MATCH OR EVEN A POSTAGE STAMP, AND THE DOG WILL REALIZE ITS CHILL TIME. IF YOU SPEND ENOUGH TIME WITH YOUR DOG , HE WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU EXPECT. YOU ARE TRAINING THE DOG EITHER WAY YOU GO. REALIZE THIS, THEN TRY AND DO THE RIGHT THING.

 

Gotcha. Thank you for your answer.

 

This ex friend of Tommy's was beating the shit out of the dog. Harsh to end the friendship? No way, IMO. I probably would of beat the crap out of the guy right before I ended the friendship. As a matter of fact, I would of taken it much much further than Tommy did.

And as far as rolling, you are comparing apples and oranges, with regard to this thread.

 

The guy was beating an 8 week old puppy. Id have beaten his eyes shut for that.

 

Please do not get me wrong, I did not defend his ex friend's actions. If it were a friend of mine, I would have thought he was wrong for beating the pup as well. But if I grew up with the person and had known them and been their friend that long, I can't say that I'd stop being their friend all together. But as I said in my last post, different people handle things in different ways.
Maybe I am comparing apples and oranges. They're both fruit in my eyes. LOL

 

I guess different strokes for different folks. But I can tell you, for me, i'd kick that person to the curb faster than a New York minute.

Diva: let me ask you a question. Would you really want a friend that does this? Wouldn't that show you what this person was capable of doing, possibly to a human being? Would you be able to trust this person around your kids? I'm not putting animals/kids in the same boat here. But, if a person can do this to an animal, he certainly is capable of doing it to a kid.

 

Well, I can't say that I'd be as close of friends....but can't say that I'd just all together stop being friends with the person. I do not have children. If I did, I wouldn't just leave them with anybody and everybody any way. So, no, I probably wouldn't trust that person with my children.
I recently found out that a friend of mine is dying. So, I have been a little sensitve. I guess that's why I thought it was little harsh. Sorry.

 

I'm sorry about your friend.