What's Your Opinion on these breedings???

What's your opinion.



BREEDING #1
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=82798

http://howardsworkingapbts.20fr.com/photo2_3.html





BREEDING #2
http://www.winmorkennels.com/ click on 'BREEDING' (IT'S THE ONLY ONE THERE, PED IS DOWN BELOW)


Just wondering what you all thought about these. I'd like to hear all pros and cons. I am friends w/ both of these people, so no 'personal' attacks would be appreciated. Just opinions on the breedings and the dogs.


Thanks,
Andrew

 

A snowball has a better chance surviving in hell than one of those has a chance of being on our yard. Just not my kind of dog.

 

I like the first one, but I've told you that

 

Not really my cup of tea..hopefully someone else can help

 

Not my cup of tea. I guess if you are looking for UKC dogs they fit the bill.

 

UKC stock definately. Good luck with them....

 

All I gotta say is good luck them in what your doin with them.

 

I wouldent feed ether. But Howard is a good dude and his dogs work so Id go with the Howard breeding

 

Howard has some nice dogs but some tend to run larger since and I know he has put SCh titles on them that are impressive.
The second one is UKC show dogs with a few WP titles and some novice level Ob and AG. Not impressed and not a fan of Ro Ki because of temperament issues.

I know you are looking for a working dog I would go with Howard's APBT over the show line stuff.

You are looking for a show dog that can do weight pull, I guess it depends on how successful you want to be. I would go smaller and gamebred.....

 

I go for howards.
I was a big fan of Magnus (RIP). He has put alot of time and dedication to his dogs. I've talked with him once, and he seems to know what he is talking about. Straight up guy. Havent heard a bad thing about him. this would be my choice.


2nd breeding i've heard of them but nothing else.

 

Those aren't really my thing, BUT, I will admit that I like the first breeding.Those titles on the sire and dam are not easily earned.They show two things:
1.Hard work and persistence on the part of handlers, trainers and owners.
and more importantly
2.Dogs that are very sound in body and mind.

Good luck with them.

 

What's wrong with the RoKi dogs' temperaments? I owned one & he was a very nice dog, save that he was bad DA. I should have kept him, but times were tough & money talks. I ended up selling him to a friend who was *supposed* to keep the dog so I could still have access to him. But he ended up selling the dog after other fanciers dogged him out for having a Lar-San dog. Now, I no longer have access to him, have no idea whatever happened to him & regret selling him. But anyway, he was a nice dog.

 

First breeding wins hands down and that is why I would have to ask.What do you want the dog for?.I though Howard bred mainly working dogs.The other dogs look nice but they are show dogs and if thats what you want then thats ok too but I doubt they are bred for the same kind of work.Isnt that Leri's dog on the top.He is a nice looker and good worker from what Ive been told but never seen him in person.
I would have one off that litter tomorrow.Just out of curiosity how much is he asking.

 

Nice Amstaffs, but I am sorry, not my kind of dog...

 

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 bgColor=#3399ff border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width="25%" rowSpan=8>Sire
Winmor's The Bold N Beautiful</TD><TD width="25%" rowSpan=4>Sire
UWPCH Lowery's CH Little Red Corvette WDX, CGC</TD><TD width="25%" rowSpan=2>Sire
UWPCH UWPCHX UWPCHO CH Lowery's CH ACE Red Rage WDS, CGC, IDT3, GDT</TD><TD width="25%">Sire
Ray's CH Red Rector</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%">Dam
'PR' Branham's BB</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%" rowSpan=2>Dam
Lowery's CH Cameo Appearance</TD><TD width="25%">Sire
Goodson's Kata</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%">Dam
'PR' Lowery's Shes Siko Sexy</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%" rowSpan=4>Dam
'PR' Jirokee's Opened Pandora's Box</TD><TD width="25%" rowSpan=2>Sire
UWPS UWPCHX GR CH 'PR' Ro-Ki's Red Warrior of Lar-San</TD><TD width="25%">Sire
UWP UCD CH 'PR' Lar-San Red Rocketeer of Wells</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%">Dam
GR CH 'PR'Lar-San's Wilrox Texas Tornado</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%" rowSpan=2>Dam
GR CH 'PR' Majestic's Maiden The USA</TD><TD width="25%">Sire
'PR' Majestic' Nitro-Glycerin</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%">Dam
'PR' Ruthie's Dynamite</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%" rowSpan=8>Dam
UWPCH CH 'PR' WinMor Ro-ki Princess Margo CGC WDS </TD><TD width="25%" rowSpan=4>Sire
UWPS UWPCHX GR CH 'PR' Ro-ki's Red Warrior of Lar-San</TD><TD width="25%" rowSpan=2>Sire
UWP UCD CH 'PR' Lar-San Red Rocketeer of Wells</TD><TD width="25%">Sire
CH 'PR' E Williams' Steel Spike</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%">Dam
CH 'PR' GR CH Xia of Lar-San</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%" rowSpan=2>Dam
GR CH 'PR' Lar-San's Wilrox Texas Tornado</TD><TD width="25%">Sire
GR CH 'PR' Mabbott's Crimson Tide</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%">Dam
GR CH 'PR' Lar-San Deity</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%" rowSpan=4>Dam
UWPCH UCD UAG1 GR CH 'PR' Ro-Ki's Warrior Princess UKC SUPER DOG</TD><TD width="25%" rowSpan=2>Sire
UCD GR CH 'PR' Lar-San Krimson Chas Krug</TD><TD width="25%">Sire
GR CH 'PR' Beaujolais of Lar-San</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%">Dam
CH 'PR' Derby's L'San Gigersnap</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%" rowSpan=2>Dam
GR CH 'PR' Majestic's Maiden The USA</TD><TD width="25%">Sire
'PR' Majestic's Nitro-Glycerin</TD></TR><TR><TD width="25%">Dam
'PR' Ruthie's Dynamite</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Thanks for the response. For those of you who say neither of these are 'your cup of tea' can you elaborate? Are these considered 'curs'?

I know the top option is more UKC, I get that. I am ok w/ that. However, doesn't the ped above have some good game stuff in it? Be kind, I am not reallllly familiar w/ gamelines, etc.

 

what you listed are not game lines they are show lines. I guess it depends on what you call good stuff........ I know you are looking for a working dog, at least get a dog from proven working lines like Howards. Those UKC titles they have on those dog in that ped are not that hard to get. But SCH 3 on a dog takes real work and a real dog.

 

Registries ruin dog breeds. They always have. Look at the ADBA and their willingness to change the standard and allow the registration of dogs that weigh 100 pounds and are no more physically sound than English Bulldogs. The focus of reputable registries of the past are now focusing more on the outer appearance (which is important when it comes to dogs being physically sound) but pay no mind to the disposition of the dogs they are willing to register. I keep personal peds on my dogs, but refuse to register. We may have the best "game" dogs the world has ever seen, but the system we use to judge these animals is inferior compared other countries. When you can get your dog titled CH. before the age of 2 (before knowing exactly how the dog will turn out) our system for judging canines will continue to fail in producing dogs trully worthy of this title.

 

That isn't a game line, the dogs probably are game like a Shepherd, Doberman pinscher or Amstaff. Just a show line. The dogs you have postet aren't APBTs at all, no selection the last generations.

If they are good in VPG/ SchH I don't know.
I am not a fan of doing SchH-work with AST/ APBT because he is so tenderly towards mankind...

But if you decide to take a dog from there I wish you luck

 

It depends what you mean by cur.I asked you what do you want the dog for?If you want a working dog then get a dog from Howard.If you want a show dog you can find one anywhere.The right tool for the right job.
Like I said I would have one of those dogs from Howards litter in a heartbeat.Not everyone wants a one dimensional dog.Howards litter looks pretty much OFRN and does go back to game lines but more importantly is what the immediate parents are and they are workers.Not much comparison between the 2.

 

Sorry mate but you need to have a closer look at the peds Howards dogs are not amstaffs.I agree some of his other dogs do have some amstaff blood in their peds but that litter is pretty much pure ofrn.Just becuase they may have taken part in UKC shows doesnt mean they are amstaffs.The other kennel does however look more amstaff like.