What "proven" means to you

What "proven" means to you

Just a little food for thought. What does proven or proven stock mean to you. Weight pull/show titles? Best grip and handling of a hog? Healthy and looks good? Everyone's opinions are of course, highly appreciated

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

Well, to be truly proven to me means game/gamebred.

If you mean proven to bred in the US, then a dog that is legally proven, in my opinion, can be conformation champ, but I'd also prefer that did something like weight pull or hunting or some form of working.

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

proven to me means that your animals can consistently do what ever it is told to do.

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

When dealing with these dogs "Prooven", can only mean 1 thing and one thing only. Prooven Stud dog or prooven brood bitch. LMAO

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

I know that man, reread the OP.....
Proven also means different things to different people (a dog with good conformation may be enough for one, while some people's dogs have to excel and participate in 3 different sports), which is why I asked.

You go to a breeder who says he has proven stock and his idea of proven is the dog is red with a red nose like he likes. You still getting a pup from that yard?

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

O.K., when dealing with the game bred APBT, proven can ONLY mean one thing and one thing only.

I don't know about show titles and that stuff, in my circle it can ONLY mean one thing. When you are talking bout a single dog.

If a breeder is talking bout colors then he's a BYB, not a true breeder like the one's i deal with and i know a few

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

There we go. Thank you

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

Proven apbt/stock in TODAYS world IMO is a dog who will consistently excel in any task at hand be it the show ring, conformation, agility, and weight pull, the dog should also be considered breeding worthy able to produce consistent sound genetics and temperment in their offspring generation after generation.

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

????? What kind of answers are you trying to get?

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

Like I said, it's nothing but some food for thought. I was curious on what people thought and how varying the differences were. To each his own, ayep

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

I wonder when someone has a short Bully dog with 22 inch head and weighs 120 pds what does it mean when they say proven? lol

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

lmfao

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

It means that their owner is a PROVEN sucker..lol

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

lololololololol

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

He's proven to um...sit there really well? Lol I don't know

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

It means he sired some pups that came out with all their parts attached and didn't pass out doing it.

For me, proven means the dog has done something to prove they possess all of the qualities that I look for. And yes, for my dogs, one of the things I'm looking for are titles of some sort. That's how we roll. I prefer to see a show title, although with the subjectivity in the show ring, I can live without one. But I absolutely want to see a meaningful working title. Not an entry-level weight pull title or a CGC. Something more. Something that challenges the dog. And I want to see health-tests. And I want to see that dog's temperament tested and proven to be sound.

Bears mentioning that my idea of proven comes before the breeding. Proven breeders are another thing entirely.

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

Answering questions like this have "proven" to be evidence used in busting folks with "proven" dogs. It is a "proven" fact that people who hate the APBT and their owners...... and wish to kill all of the dogs.... read these message boards. Even though we all know that we here only participate in legal activities, it is buzz words like "proven" that will have you and your dogs picked up and you will be forced to "prove" your innocence in a court of law. Lets just hope you don't have a mill, stick, flirt pole or dog chain set-up on site.....or any scratches on your dog.

In all seriousness guys watch how you ask and answer questions. Have any of you seen the number of recent busts? It's a weekly news story around here. Every single one said the dogs will be put down. We don't wan't to be wrongly accused and end up having our dogs killed because of something posted here.

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

You know I respect everything you said here I wouldn't dissagree with anything you mentioned as being important. But the more and more I am around the dogs, dog people, shows and weight pull the more and more I am starting to de-value it as some type of standard of judging a said dog or "breeder" against. There are many many people and dogs that will never see a show and don't wan't anything to do with that whole scene. I mean that don't even register their dogs anymore because they despise that whole system and the people associated with it, who truely love their dogs and have dogs that would dominate the shows if they did go. I am talking true dog men that realize that papers are just that, paper. I could go on and on with practical and philosophical arguments against registries and registering dogs. It usually but not always comes down to one thing, $$$. And the registry is making a killing!!
With all of that said I am going to continue at least for now doing what we have been doing with our dogs. Personal goals to achive tiltles and what not in the ADBA but there are alot of things that turn me off about the ADBA the more and more I am around it. The ONLY reason we do it is for the love of the dogs and the few friends we have made.

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

I understand what you're saying, truly. As much as my dogs are dumped in the UKC show ring, I know that it's not a real evaluation of their quality. Especially Terra (my Buckhide/Trin baby). As much as she loses, you'd think she's a trainwreck when she's really just not the "type" they're looking for. In the end, it's more an evaluation of our stamina and our show budget, just keep plugging away until we can get that CH. I can understand why someone wouldn't even want to be involved in the show scene, much as I enjoy it myself. Even being on the fringes, you have to deal with a lot of drama, favoritism, political judging, and so on. You're right that it doesn't hold a lot of value most of the time, but at present, it's what we've got.

I do what I do because I feel it is the best way for me to prove my dogs. In the end, I would not breed a dog based on titles alone. But if a dog of mine can't get any meaningful title -- and by that, I mean more the ones that are based on their performance, not on the ones that are subjective -- then IMO they've failed the set of criteria I set out for them. My ideal is to keep and eventually create dogs that can do those things. I obviously don't touch anything that would put us at risk, so I use the only tangible measuring sticks we have: the titles, the health-tests, temperament tests, etc. If my dogs can do it, then they bear a closer look. If they can't do it, then I really don't even see the point of digging deeper for something positive to base breeding them on. That's just the way I look at it.

I agree with you. I've already decided that there are some things I'm not even going to worry about. My dogs will probably never be ACE because I don't have a concentrated weight pull breeding/training program. I pull to see them work hard, not to beat the other dogs who are out there to win at any cost. I show because I know I have good dogs who deserve a shot, not to beat the ones owned by those who have done the show thing professionally for 30 years. When we win, we're happy. When we lose, we make plans for the next show. No matter what, though, when we go out, we have a good time. I enjoy sitting in those nasty, dusty barns, listening to people talk and dogs bark. And I enjoy all the other stuff we do: agility, obedience, want to try Terra in a lure coursing fun run, want to try dock diving if we can find it close enough. No matter what, it's a good time.

 

Re: What "proven" means to you

*EDIT*

Am I banned now?

( No smart Ass but you can be)