tom garner

AGK and Slim hit it on the head and probably hurt some feelings...
Same recipe as Maurice Carver, flood the market and use the money to buy back the good ones or new stock...
Garner is just doing it on a bigger level, but probably only getting a smaller percentage of good ones...
These type of breeders use a popular stud dog such as MAYDAY, and breed any old bitch to'em as there is a market for that...
IMO they breed substandard brood and in generations they get worse instead of better or equal as the base...
Plus when thier are ran in such big numbers for generation after generation with little human interaction, they tend to lack the original traits they were valued for...
FACT...alot tightbred frisco dogs from garner are shy, and a small percentage when cornered will bite your ass!!!
Just like tightbred alot redboy dogs are high strung, stupid and lack any human compassion from generations of nonselective breeding and perhaps the multi generational lack of human interaction...

Garners Base of Chinaman and Spike were second to none,at the end of friscos career something was lost...
Garner understood the value of a good outcross and utilizedsome fine cardenas,hollingswoth, and cottingham dogs for example...
If he really has an objective besides money, I am not sure... But the amount of dogs bred shows theres now way hes evaluting them as individuals and breeding to better his line, but rather just waiting for a good word back to exploit that dog and its breeding...
If so I would say garner is as close to a true puppy mill with no other breeding objective than money and is of little value to the future of this breed...
With that being said,,, as far as peddelers,,, garner is the best....SEND, SPEND and SPEND!!!

 

I don't want anyone getting my posts confused or misinterpretated. I have nothing against tom, never even talked to the man. I don't want it to sound like I'm hating on him because that's definitely not the case. I have seen some very good workers directly from him that others around me use but they will also tell you they spent thousands and went through quite a few to get that one great one. I'm the type of person that would never in a million years spend 1500 on a puppy. I don't give a shit who it's parents are. That's just me. I would pay 1500 for a dog that has already been started up though, just not a pup. Too big of a gamble and I'm not much of a risk taker when I have to feed and care for the thing for 2 years to find out its a dud. I feel he is a double edged sword, on one end, he has done alot for the breed however he also will sell to anyone which is something I typically look down on personally as we all know what happends when someone gets one of the's dogs that shouldn't even own a gerbil . I have nothing against him though, there his dogs to do with what he chooses to do with them. One either supports him or they don't. I just choose to be in the don't category.

 

Ok let me ask this...I know of a working kennel who has a stud lineup to match Garner's in terms of size and in my opinion better quality. Some of the dogs were bred by the kennel but most were not, all were shown or co-shown by the kennel. Every dog in their stud line up is or was a show dog except maybe 2 or 3. I know from the start of the summer say till late fall, when all is said and done they will have had maybe 15 litters give or take, if not more with maybe 1 or 2 kept from a particular litter and the rest open to the public...my question is, do you view this kennel in the same light as Garner or does the fact they work all their dogs themselves somehow make them different...?

 

If they go public, work their dogs and... live in the States as tg, I would call them stupid different!

 

like him or love him he is a polarizing figure lol....I've had 2 dogs from TG both good dogs.when I bred these 2 dogs I had 8 pups and out of 8 I got 2 great females 2 good males a couple of duds and a couple of average ones....this is just my experience with Frisco dogs

 

Thanks for your input, I hold the dogmen of Grece in very high regard

 

Very eloquently put Slim.

 

I agree with you slim.

 

X2 trees pits. Only on a smaller scale. Keeping 2 or 3 pups in certain litters will add up pretty fast. Some years down the road they can take over when TG retires.

 

AGK and Slim. I dont hate garner... Sorry my post that followed yours made you discalim that you didnt hate him so I feel I better follow also...
I just dont find value in breed any bitch, and feel both breeding canidates should be of equal quality or a slight counter...

 

One thing I will say for Tom Garner and that is his yard is impeccable and every dog that I saw was healthy, young and old. Peddler or not. I won't mention names online but I have been to at least 2 other ''house hold name'' dogmans yard's which looked third world country settings.

 

I had very similar percentages from his stock. I spent well over $75,000 on dogs and nothing compared to the dog that I bought from him or bred off the original stock I got from him. I bought a dog who was supposed to be ready to go for $2,000 and took him home and bumped him with a 15 month old male off a shotsie gyp I had. That 15 month old male ruined that fully schooled dog in under ten minutes. He went on to win 5 shows and lost his last game due to babasia. Only other dogs I had that compared to Toms were some Redboy/jocko dogs down off Burns stuff. Just my experience....

 

I visited his yard several times and it was always well kept and his dogs were in excellent condition. Double blade was one of the most impressive animals I've ever seen to this day. He stood on top on his concrete doghouse like he was Conan the Barbarian.... Fucking beast of a dog.

 

We must have just been lucky lol some of my best have come from TG stock

 

I agree, he is the best at what he does and cant say he isnt a very intelligent man that has helped many, nothing wrong with that...
Plenty of times I have phrased him and his practice and have steer many his way as he is the best breeder for both the public and his friends, dont get it twisted just cause you spent somey money and he gave you some of his time that you are friends... Now I think he is far from the best as far as private stock goes, but his amigos have something that will run with it...
If his yard isnt the one of the nicest well kept places, I dont know what is... Than agian its more than a hobby as he gave up his other careers and focused on the dogs, so yes its a buisness to keep that yard ti top for many reasons, as well as the health of his dogs are the best, and on the huge level he sells pups and rarley or never have you heard complaints about a sick pup,husbandry agian tip top as well...a buisness to keep them so... and yes some tip top studs has helped the buisness out since the foundation of chinaman and spike...Both very admirable as well....
Over all good man that takes pride in what he enjoys and made a buiness out of it, in this day and age thats truley something to be admired...Plus he helps others in need, cant say that about many buisness men...

as far as chinaman dogs I dont think he has the best till the men that use the mojo rising and or el mo dos families sellout... just my opinon, dont let your dollars run your emotions and get sad... Just help your idol pay his taxes...

 

I am a big fan of QUINN'S ELLE MAE and some of the best dogs down from Frisco had the Elle Mae blood in them. Double Blade was nothing short of a monster.

 

I have no complaints with what I had from either what so ever. I did have very tight bred dogs which were picked by me to be used as brood for out crosses which worked out very well for me. Like I posted before, it is a personal matter with the man himself that will keep me from getting anything else from him.

For me Conan, Frankie, Hickson Jr., Momo, Bosco, Haystack or Bob Lowe are all worth breeding to.