The Colby Line

Pretty much dogs like my dog Turk.. I threw pics of him up on the most ripped thread. .. Colbys Jerry, and Westpenns Baby.. somewhere inbetween the two.. Turks mother was a spitten image of Baby and back in 00-02 both Ratliff and I were like "where did you get your dog?" LOL then we never spoke again .. .. I noticed those markers then and just bred for that and bred what worked and culled the rest. I ended up with cannibals.. litterally as pups they would kill and eat the weak.. Turk is the last of that stuff.

the whole bred by ped thing they are trying to say I said alone; is what I did after i understood what markers to look for, for the old world bulldog.. I figured out I could do it with Halls, Snooty,lonzo to the hammons heinzl bitch i never seen. I had bred Hoagie twice before to the inbred bitch Turks mother. I knew that bibbys rebel and tanner chink eye both harbored traits lost by the others... smashed together I got a red/yellow brindle version of Fitzwater Goldie, a mini female version of trahans rascal (the one I kept) a female version of jimmy boots(the one i wanted to keep I sold to my dear army friend) a female version of Charlie (halls and heinzl washed together like boudreaux and loposay) and a female replica of GG spike.. the main source of the snooty catalyst...

I want a family of bulldogs like that I can trust on the homestead or out in the field. Dont think I wont use an outcross with my Hammonds/Heinzl bitch, I just will be particular where she fits, I wont taint an entire strain I will keep Colby bred pure for the most part in full working quality.

 

K we are all familar with phenotype. Under certain circumstances I might use it to select which offspring stay and go but never which dogs I breed. You never know what genetics a dog has until he proves it. Good luck with the pure doggies though

 

Ah the longer you stay within a family of dogs you are bound to breed yourself into a corner at some point this is where an outcross works and is needed. I don't really label anything pure what's pure? Pure what? All families and strains have been outcrossed at some point. I don't think any family including Colby would be around today had those men not bred into other families or strains. The truth is a bloodline can only survive but so long off of a name alone if you are not breeding for something other than just a family name. Performance is what these dogs are bred for if you can find it within a family or strain that's what you build off of the dogs themselves the dogs who are proving to be quality animals. You can't pull performance out of the hat it has to be there to begin with. Let the dogs prove themselves the paper just leaves a trail of what the dogs did if you have 4 generations of no accomplishments on anything you are breeding I think it's safe to say you have failed miserably and should start over with good performing dogs who have something to bring to the table and will push these qualities on for several generations to come this is what makes it work and keeps it going. I have nothing against the Colby dogs personally never owned one. I think good dogs are good dogs and if the man breeding them is breeding quality dogs than the dogs will be great regardless of the man's name attached to the pedigree. Just my 2 cents lol...

 

No.. You never know if a dog is sound; until you prove it ...

still come up short... thanks for the wishes. Seein how its a discussion promted by you and others out of a discussion we were having .. I explained it all and still you take two words from the whole and run with it.. First the discussion twisted this way then that way and rage ask about traits .. well .. I keep my exact knowledge to myself and made it simple the old world bulldog.. the complete package .. the dog being somewhere between Jerry and Baby.. When you look at baby you have to understand shes 1 in a million just like duma was. A red nosed apbt with an original bulldog head. A dog has to be bred a particular way to get such traits patrick knew this, ratliff knew this, the old greats I honor so much knew it well. Thats why we knew somewhere our dogs had to be related as much as we had similar breeding styles, ratliff thought I got a patrick dog, and I bred the dog.. LOL Maybe you don't know how to look into what a litter will be but I've gotten pretty good at it. I got what I want out of tight bred tant mixed stuff hands on 10yrs and just recently 1 yrs of studying dogs their pedigree and picking the dog the bred the most true to his dna map its ped. Proving I can look at a dog if true to the ped and tell you what you'll get. You just now try to start with solid terms like phenotype, lol I put it all in laymens terms if you want it in biological terms and genetic terminology ales, genotype, phenotype, I can leave you standing even more clueless you think I am now. .. kinda like if you and your best dog went with me in the mtns with turk.. .. .. it would also chew up more room on this thread not conducive to original conversation.

you are on the colby strain page and it is a family and pure strain only using colby outs bred by someone else; I just taking that good family and keeping it going ..

 

PURITY of strain.. LOL ..thats how this conversation started .. if you believe colby lost performance then why does anything cross hit? when its the other sub strain that needed the cross not the colby, they chose the colby for the cross.. and redboy was 3/4 colby dna and thats his marker you cannot deny that without denying yourself the understanding of genetics. SO for all those all hot on redboy dogs those are colby traits and markers washed with OF/OFRN that you love so much.. People dont like that because they dont understand how DNA works or the purpose of family purity when talkin colby. Well you know, your shaky opinion isn't new, people thought colby petered out back when and heinzl was still proven em all wrong, didn't like most dog men and said the best thing ever about good dogs "the sooner they start the sooner they quit" .. He only got his dogs from one or two sources.. I showed you a 3Xer that is up front in my dogs ped and said disect it.. its pure colby up until just off the boat.

If they were to write a book today who would be in it? would they be considered greater than heinzl? if so by who ? those who have limited understanding and knowledge.. ??Those men some of us would call the best today still say heinzl is the best ever,.Those who know how to lock in traits understand exactly what I've said. I'm sorry it still be-wielders you what I'm saying. All the attribute you consider most important, go without saying for me thats a given..

 

If you can do this you are better than any dog man who has ever bred dogs including JP.. There is no way to know for sure even if you breed the best of the best together what you will get will it increase you're chances for greatness hell yeah it will but it doesn't gaurentee you an entire litter of winning offspring .... Breeding bulldogs winning performance dogs is not that simple it's just not if it were that easy every dog born would be a winning dog there would be no curs and culling would be obsolete. And every bloodline or strain would be created equal when we know that they are not. There are several different people breeding Jeep/Redboy RBJ dogs all getting different results guess what? They all come from the same dogs what makes one man's breeding better than the next man's is he bred only the best performing dogs out of those families/bloodlines and culled the sub par dogs who were not living up to the family as a whole he didn't breed cur's he bred performance winning dogs that proved they were worth the paper their name was written on. What you are talking about is stacking pedigree's to produce similar results from the past that only works if you have a strong foundation to start with that means both parents better be top notch dogs or be bred to top notch dogs/producing dogs because they are the dogs that will keep your business up and running. You can know genetics all day long but if you are breeding shitty parents guess what? They will produce more shit this is how it works. I agree with some of what you are saying but when it comes to breeding it's more than just stacking 20 generations of pedigree's and know the traits a certain family was built off of families/strains/ dogs are ruined as quickly as they are made. You have to know what gene pools you are currently working with and you have to be working with proven performance dogs otherwise you are lost. You can only see what's in front of you and take a chance on what you know to be true. It's not about the purity of a strain/family/bloodline it's about the individual dogs themselves that PROVE true to those traits that these strains,families, bloodlines were built upon this is where it starts. Foundation I know you are good peeps and we will just have to agree to disagree on some things as we have before lol.

 

So the old world bulldog is the throw back in looks to a ancestor fine and dandy but what about the performance of said dog? U mentioned a Ch. Up close in one of your peds that's great and all but its one out of how many? Pups killing pups that's nothing new or unheard of in bulldog litters. You not me are saying you can study and pedigree and make a breeding yes it can be done and is done all the time by paper pushers the ped mean s squat if the dogs being bred are shit or if all the good dogs r in the 12th gen. All I m saying breeding Bulldogs is nt as simple as studying peds yes it helps but u need good dogs to do so. It may work for needs and that's great but its not a way I would go about breeding my yard its kinda like your breeding for looks in a way.

 

I think if Colby were around today he would start outcrossing. After a hundred years a line is bound to need some new genes. It is simple people use what they feel will be successful and the consensus is it ain't a pure Colby dog. You can call it immaturity, arrogance or what ever you want, but the Colby line hasn't been up to snuff in years. Probally because some dummy thought they could look at the pedigree and tell if the dog was worth breeding. Old timers have even said the line wasn't the same after JP Colby died. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. The best family breeders of recent history eventually infused some new blood into their line.

 

not really .. JP and Heinzl both could look at a ped and a dog and tell you if it'd work or not, at least thats the kind of stuff that is said in history about them.

I've said it as clear as possible and you still over look all the fine points of detail.. I used good dogs the first time around from hands on, and the 2nd time around that I didnt see or know in person just that the dog was honest to the pedigree and should breed true. You over look that I wouldnt use a dog that didn't work, because you know what it didn't WORK. I didnt say fit, I said work. in that word to me is everything you spew up as if I don't know it by heart what a bulldog is: work..


Im cracking up your trying to explain stuff to me I already understand fully and is moot.. what your really saying is colby is washed up. LOL


No only some can only see whats infront of them others can actually see the big picture.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=446070 7/8 colby with all kinds of proven dog on the bottom

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=370148

The dogs are just as good and honest as their peds ^^^ and thats good enough for me. They have proven stuff up close enough. If I wanted a game dog I could have one with ch grch and winners all the way through the 4 like you peeps like but as scattered as the litter I just made. Thats cool, I can honor that .. I honor pure: colby, heinzl, and clouse more..

I dont' think any of you have read as clearly as you have jumped to assumption. I've had to double back and say the same things over in bigger and brighter crayon. Until my crayola mountain is empty.

If you don't like colby or pure colby don't mess with it.. However no one here has brought anything to the table I dont' know nor that I am not aware of. Sadie you have a good mentor or two and landed a yard full of good dogs. You may disagree now however I can find you a pm where you asked me to step into a genetics conversation, I also remember you calling me asking me to step in. Very few were able to keep up with me and the genetic science fact I posted as you recall.

For those of you who are talkin smack on purity Im sure you have a dog that is heavily inbred off of one or two dogs and that is purifying traits under that one or two dogs DNA. Constant manipulation and the truth is other than those outside the country puttin it down, the peeps inside the country who have put the hog test in a [] and those doing under the wraps within, there isn't a harder game test than I put my dogs through. Take your dog at 3 months and let it fight off 2-3 coyotes that are going to eat it, when its 1 take it out and let him tree the bear, passes that one let him/her chase off or settle a pissed off moose... The last will kill your dog if the first two dont. Not mine, at least the ones I keep.. Survival of the fittest.

take from this what you will and leave the rest... For I have seen nothing from you neh sayers other than, pot shot negativity with no ground to stand on.. As I stated which was stated by Stratton, Colby, and Heinzl.. Two types of breeder those for the dog and those for the bet. Most who breed for the bet think they are breeding for the dog. Those breeding for the dog need to be reminded whats needed for the bet...

I just keep it simple.. Survival of the fittest, thats nature.. nature always wins

 

Yup.. heinzl was proven those neh sayers wrong even back then...

 

I'm not pot shoting you your arguments r great but its off historical dogs. To b honest letting a 3mnth old pup fight two or three coyote s is down right stupid. I was simply trying to understand your method which boils down to pedigree x pedigree. I never saod Colby dogs r trash but they have not been the same quality in quite some time if you have good ones Congrats but it seems u need a piece of paper to tell you that.Here's my last question do u honestly think the Colby dogs of now could have competed in open competition pre 1976?

 

I wasn't even gonna touch the fact he was bragging about what the pups where doing, that doesn't tell me anything about the quality of the finished product. Its safe and easy to breed for pretty papers and looks. You can claim whatever you want then but its a different story when you have to prove it. And the factyou know a dog should be good because of its ped is like saying all littermates are created equal. There may very well be some good ones in there but not often are their all game litters which is why you test to let the bad weed themselves out. Or you could always cull based on eye shape right? Lol

 

Some people can stack pedigree's and it work's for them but only if they are breeding proven performance dogs does this work. Otherwise you are just breeding dogs hoping that a genetic throw back freak pop's up from 10 generations back and if that were the case the dog would be just that a freak that would probably never produce worth a damn. Anyway at this point I think the argument has run it's course. Colby dog's are what they are those who know know if you like them feed them if you don't don't.

 

Dream I get what he ' s saying but it seems he s basing everything off peds looks dead dogs and dead breeders. To each his own as the say. Yis Ole Man

 

well see there ... in my world 3-4 month old dogs are fair game to coyotes so they get their chance by natures way .. you cant touch it, if you dont live it. The pups are generally loose and even in pens bobcat, lynx and golden eagles eyeball them. If I'm asleep or gone and they get into it with some coyotes, that a country dogs lifestyle up here in mtns. Even in the flats below it. So what are you talking. made up none sense wanna be pot shots don't even make sense because you didn't read thoroughly your assumptions are shinning through. Again you presume to try to teach me about testing and weeding out after a page ago I let ya know Greenwood, Davis and Tant taught me my first todo I played with that for 10yrs hands on genetics then I majored in biology for 2yrs and changed it last minute to psychology. THere are a crap load of biology majors up here with no where to go. Still made good grades and wakes.. I need a nice piece of paper? LOOK if the pedigree is honest it is the DNA blue print of your dog.. PERIOD Without getting a REAL DNA test which most of you havent seen they cost 300-1500 to get done and show the full DNA chain every marker where what hits where. Not that crap paternity test stuff, Davis told me those were a joke and Tant didnt even touch it. The dog should match the pedigree. I wouldnt even think of breeding a dog if it wasnt a proven worker that a given for the 3rd time.

I didn't create the test I use, nature did.. I found it funny because nature was killing great quality dogs from Ok to WA and well, when I hunted hog I didnt use a vest and only used one dog and we bagged two pigs over 175 one over 250 late at night on my landlords 650 acre parcel come to find out those pigs had been killing dogs in that area for some time and they couldnt find the pigs... LOL Also tamed a bull that tried to get at the landlord that was blood and dust.. In that time was the first time my pups ran off and got in a tussle with coyotes, I could hear the whole chaos as I neared .. one pup battled off 3 coyotes saved her sister but lost the brother he got disembowled, ususally how they kill dogs. I mastered hunting yote's with dogs and raising stock dogs around cattle all from that game dog stuff... 2-4yrs later I was traveling north to check out what all I could stir up in MT and ID.. I stayed in ID.
HAHAHA! HERE the coyotes are like 50lbs and will EAT your dog. They send a female in to taunt the males and vice verse.. Turk likes em both well enough to eat. He is a product of what you call stupid and I call nature and survival of the fittest, here in the country its just easiest for training and better for the pups to be loose until about 1yr... I dont' throw pups out in a batch of coyotes if you know anything about coyotes that wouldnt work cause they are smart and run from your ass before in range for a shot usually. Yote hunters usually do it at night with a gun and a light or in deep camo with calls and scents.. So your getting carried away with yourself. I had to move my dogs down to my folks in the flats and coyotes ran through the first day, LOL trying to take my pups scraps.. they are closer to 6months now the 3 that got tested by nature passed. this summer we'll trail bear getting ready for fall season when the moose are also aggressive. I feed raw usually game or butcher leftovers, coyotes come around alot just for the scraps they aint gonna get.. and two nights ago dutchie dog got to show her stuff with the moose again. Most people try to wrangle their dogs when those critters come around I just let mine out.

Turk 37lbs did this last spring .. the third coyote got away until this summer when he tricked me into letting turk out and we ran to the back of the 10 and in a jiff that damn yote was up front and there were pups fightin and jackal cries, Turk got that big smart bastard but it was summer so I disposed of the carcas instead of field dressing it and feedin it up to em. Like the bear scraps I get from those who pull the trigger, or get an open kill shot in my case LOL. I feed elk as well and beef and lamb the rest of the year all raw. I use kibble in the heat of the summer. Their prize is the predator they seize.. .. which is good because I need a dog that can be back home with the kids in the evening as they go to sleep walk them home down the private road, handle all the idaho wildlife that will take you and our dog out, and be there in the morning when I make my rounds. I have 6 kids and I dont have time to run and check every 5 min on dogs, I need dogs thats going to check on us. which requires all that you would ask of your favorite dog you can think of with an ol yellar type disposition around the kids and farm. I dont want to look to other people but produce my own dogs. I figure COlby is a good place to start all over. I'll keep it how he and heinzl bred em and breed my own. I have picked a dog with a sliver of jeep 1/8 out and when the time comes use my Hammonds/heinzl bitch. That should be well enough outcross as I can follow colby all the way back and it didn't cross out in JPs time or Lous time to anything that wasnt colby or from the same litter as a colby dog. Make your presumptions about what you think game dog men would have done. Im paying attention to what they did do.. thats what Im doing I just raise em different than most people. No leash laws in rural idaho matter a fact no bsl or any bs laws in idaho. Its a constitutionally free state. You guys would take advantage of the no felony must have witness [] rule.. I take advantage of the ability to engage in predators and the run in and out of the woods with dogs of prey doing things and living in a country lifestyle that would kill most dogs. So from now on when people are amazed that my dogs whipped a pissed off moose in the yard or on the trail or that one lil bulldog treed a 350lb bear I can say that it a pure or near pure colby dog. I like that .. JMO I dont want to look at a scatter bred ped. I have that I've seen those and even if its all winners up the nose.. I may take one more that would meet your approval but it is a private breeding and well I have to honor that until I can post it. Colby will be my primary focus .. thus why I posted great colby dogs in the colby thread..

See up here in the country you cant be dumb as you perceive me to be. You'll die in them woods out there..and your lil dog too.

 

Well at least you do something with you're hounds besides sit up online and talk about their ped's lol.. Anyway I know where those Colby dogs you got come from Rampage Kennels is good peep's. For what you use those dogs for they should be just fine ... I think what most have argued on this thread is that The Colby Family has gone another direction and there is a very small percentage of colby dogs competing and winning and if you were in that arena you would probably be using a different family all together. I don't know every Colby dog out there and don't really keep up with them just knowing what I know it's not too often I hear anyone mention the name Colby when it's time to do a performance breeding.

 

You are so wrong because Lou made this breeding before he died and she is all bulldog and tighter than any of that so called Colby stuff bred by fanciers not the Colby family. Foundation of my yard aka First Lady check her siblings


URL: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=431491

 

^^^^^^^^. Check my reply above

 

So what the stronger gene pool then? because this looks like an old school colby dog to me.. I've not seen to many SCK or any redboy mayday type dogs look anywhere near this.. Dutchy showed us this dog.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=232617

You trying to tell me the colby gene pool is washed up.. Looks like that dog is washed over in a 1950/60 era colby dog. So who took whos genetics? Colby is the foundation to most strains esspecially redboy so if anything heavy redboy touches it your going to see those colby dogs loposay based his breedings on.

The proof is always in the puddin'.........

 

exactly ..