stompanato

Limey that Ch Firefly, what a good looking bitch. Now my point that I was making initially brings your most recent post alot closer to each other. You see you did not just breed to the colour black because it was a throback to your initial producer. You used other dogs that were really excellent athletes and brought certain traits to the table. Although they were not representitive of the colour, they sure were in the form of ability. I read the pelican brief with much delight and appreciate all your input, but my point is that you initially caused much confusion by almost stressing the point that you only bred to the black dogs to retain certain traits of your initial producer and that the black colour was indicaticve of certain traits (abilities). I by and largely agreed but said that colout to me was secondary to traits and (or) ability, therefore I would use a dog with a different colour from the offspring, providing they retained or showed specific traits.
NOW finally I do conclude you must have used the same thinking, because although we agree that we would rather go with the colour and traits of the initial stud/rpoducer to retain his(and maybe her) abilities in their offspring, but will opt with another colour (specifically in the offspring used to furhter the breeding programme) if those animals bring along the desired traits we would like to see in the offspring. My thoughts are always to produce better animals than the initial producers, therefore performance would always triuph over traits like colour, although retaining the desired colour would be the preference if the offspring came with the complete package.

I trust that all and sundry can make sense of the babbling I've just written. AND lastly my apologies if I hijacked someone else's thread.

THE SAINT

 

I do think it´s simply spoken like this:

If you want to breed a strain, then you are out for all the remarkable traits, style, colour, body structure and even some temperament traits etc. etc.
If your stock based on a solid line of proven dogs, then you are best of by breeding dogs of exactly this type and if possible improve it.
Means, you know all the pros and cons of your dogs ancestry and you could even spin it further, there is sometimes a large variety on when the best mating day for some females are within certan lines, do they mature earlier or later are they more calm or more hot tempered etc. etc.
concerning style, bite, power these are all trademarks of a line.
Genetics are linked to more small things we probably ever will know but sure as hell if you want to breed a certain line with success you should be out for all available positive trademarks of it, and colour is one (just my oppinion).
The only reason to go with another specimen that doesn´t exactly fit into the line is if this single specimen is an outstanding one that you simply can´t ignore. So you only can try to add all his positive characteristics in your programm and try to breed the unwanted (in case of discussion colour) out within your next steps.
To avoid inbreeding depressions, like certain genetically transmitted deseases that could manifest or lack of reproducing abilities or other things you´d have to cross some "foreign" blood in.
I´d go with an cross that already has been proven or a line that is from a similar source like mine.
Best anyways is to raise the complete litter by yourself not giving away any of them and then cull, cull, cull and cull until you have the ones out of the certain litter that fit best to your program.
Breeding is not for the quick success or litter for litter it´s a matter of generations and carefully planning and honestly rethinking your steps and methods.
So most people today are used to convenience food (quick and easy ) and expect the same thing within their dogs!
No it isn´t! It´s all about carefull analysing, small steps and big steps, watching and studying methods of successfull people in the game and making your own decisions.
Some times you have to risk something. There are no guarantees but if you are open minded and focused and don´t expect success to grow on trees, then you´ll get lucky in creating a good thing!

 

Saint.. the pre potensy of the black stuf hase always been obvius and presend for the intyer duration this famely is around.
iven befor Tug there where some brindels and iven fawn white animals(Henzl and rufus trowbacks),
YET the black stuf always was the better side ALROUND so from itself the blacks took over to put it out plain simpel.. as mention in my previus post tug brought some and took some away, but improved in% and for the beter, not all the crosses where even , but in LOOKS and type they where and 75% where stil of the black stuf. but became a lot smarter,
Ofcours you always seek for improvemend.
with the tug line bred in we where able to breed for nearly 25 years without another cross!! during that time time purefying was able to be done without mutch problem.
But as mentiont befor. we came at a stage that we needed another cross and choose to go on several diferend routs. and see what works.
diferend types and colorations where and ARE stil presend. some dogs are way of type, some are no, some are represantetif. you chooce the type of dogs stijl whize type wize and yes color whize to get as close as you can get, witch represend the most sucsesful dogs in our history .
because the famely is now undergoing a prosses of selecting and purefying and reduce genetic variation to gain the traights types and yes coloration whe whant to see.
That thussend meen we dont aprisiate quality dogs that dont fit our profile. hell no these dogs COULD be of great valiue for someone els in the future..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Spot on!!!!!!!!!!.........

 

Very well said, I might add...