stompanato

SA powerline there wher 2 crenshaws!!!!

 

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=382
chek the colby blood in reno lots of white.. cotton bullid was a black dog.
lots of black in the eli blood in the peds you showed.
williams Satin lady Alligators mother hase been said she was out of Reno ore simulair Grenshaw blood as wel http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=386 yet no proofe was ever shown and the Carvers ironhead mask is very freakwent in the rufus and in boomerang dogs.
Boomerang is been claimed to be out of Ironhead x miss spike as wel and not out of Pistol x miss spike. dogs.

 

PL this ped debate was in one of old digests whereby they mentioned sad sack and the stompanato thing

 

http://pitbullfamily.topicboards.com/t1728-pit-bull-reporter-interview-with-ed-crenshaw

 

yep Thank you Zoltan, we oldtimers dont seem to know jack s about breeding and conditioning acording to some of the modern pepsi cola generation dogman

 

thanks Limey, the Silver Fox really ensured no one had his secrets, but I guess that could be true for many great dog breeders, but not all.

 

SApowerline . thanks
we have never lied about a pedegree we dont need to as we are not in the selling bisenis, and we take great pride in them. unfortunatly there are still BShitter today and people who take short cuts and cheap shots at people from behind there desk... breeding conditioning maintaining your own for generations is about 10 x more work then buying a couple of dogs ones in a while screw them up waised them out and buy some others. and then talk smack........

 

Hi Limey, first and foremost - my repect for what you've achieved in the bulldog game.
Now I partially agree with you as colour to me is by and large an indication of what you can expect, but I've had Boyle's dogs with the colour of Dirty Mary. Crossed this with Boyles X Bullyson and from this litter we had dogs with the colour of Dirty Mary, but displaying all the characteristics of the typical Bullyson dogs we had in SA, with the mouth to boot, with the exception that they appeared game. The black pups in the litter, one named Drago, appeared game to the core, but lacked the rest that would've been typical of the Bullysoin dogs. So yes by and large I believe in your theory, but in practise I have also seen the flipside of that theory.

 

Saint thank you .
Your 100% right in that one. and i know what your saying seen it myself(ofcours)
I also have never claimed that would be the case!!. BUT i did say that in using the color and type selection TOOL i want to ""get as close as posible"" to the dogs im breeding for!!. because type and color are genetic as wel and we might have more luck with these gens coming forward that they drawl the rest of the right genes along with them. Nothing more ore less.
because in the end we dont only whant the performance but the rest as wel. to get as close as posible as the foundation dog we breed on.....

 

Once again I've got to agree, but in my case performance is the ultimate, so I will go with what I personally see. Look at what they do, what they prefer to grab when they hunt, how hard they can close their jaws etc. I will use the dog that comes closest to the traits which I am looking for to carry the gene pool further, because what I see and prefer is what I will use. If the colour is right, then I will obviously I'll rather use the one with the colour throwing back to the ancestory I am hoping to breed back to, but the colour is wrong and the traits and characteristics are as I prefer, then that is the dog I will use in my programme. So yes I would like to have them look and perform like, or preferably better, than the individual I am line breeding on - like peas in a pot, but looks are secondary to performance. AND yes, that's just way and opinion.
AND thanks for the great response.

 

Saint i know what you mean and i agree.
and i never said ore claimed it would be EZ .fortunate the black gene pool in our case was predominand!!!!! so was the longer body type witch the alligator gene brought along with it.
I must say that we where blessed to say the least with a stroke of luck having these prepotend eurly foundation dogs. some people are waighting there intire life to get (a) dogs like that, witch can make the difrends.
a Dog like Nelis ROM whas a superior producer (ofisialy) he was bred like 11 times in witch he produced 6 ch (that we know of) and when bred back to his daughter he produced 2 ROM brothers witch bred 6 ore 7 bitches eatch and they out produced him on the ROM list. witch made Nelis a even beter producer thuse this make sens!!?. in any case it shows how strong his genes where pushed tru. 80% of his ofspring was black anyway. so yes you need to base it on a pre potend outstanding dog in the first place. cause basing it on a midium joker producer wil make that road mutch more difecult. Hensh my post about Stompenato saying as long as it is a black and wite.(and tipicel)

 

I might be wrong but I will ask anyway. Mr.Limey

As it his Hammonds has placed a very high value on his ParkSon dog, chocolate alligator dog, so much so that many of his pedigress has this dog in them. Another good stud fro him was a tri color dog, forgot the name.

Does this mean that the practices of Hammonds and Limey were different, and would you say because of this, which breeder enjoyed more success in breeding ??

 

your right he did not practise this technic. he used to have lots of the black stuf in his eurly days, later he got other famelies involved meaning lots of other genetics involved .
never the less he is unmongst the greatest breeders the world hase ever known.
Also there is no way you can compear hammonds ore limey kennels.
The build up and filosefy is compleatly diferend as is the geografic location. and the genetic build up,..
altho the blood we cary as our foundation blood was direckly from his first breeding stok.
Sucsesfull breeding knows diferend ecsplenations. Hammonds was/is a profesional breeder in the likes of it being his livelyhood.
we never bred for anything els then pride, and for ourselfs .
Hammonds bred larger nrs of dogs and many people wanted show quality ADBA dogs , others wanted catsh dogs , breeding dogs and others performance dogs.
this asks for a compleatly diferend mind set and aprotch in breeding dogs there for we can not compear ore messure sucses from one kennel with another
limey kennels never had to nor wanted te aspiration to breed the way Hammonds did and thuse. i can tell yuou one thing he hase never send us a bad one .

when we look at nr then we are tempted to say there are not many breeders in the world who actualy can put out the % nrs that came of this famely, as our famely never had more then 15/25 dogs at a given time sometimes including pups and divided over several people.. also this famely hase been douwn to a nr of 4 dogs left in our kennel during the dangeres dog laws.
and from these 4 dogs our side of the famely was build up again. witch sais enoughf about the genetic make up.
If we could have had a yard with 100 dogs then there would not be a lot of people able to compeat % wize.
Having said this there are PLENTY of famelys in the world that have there ups and downs and there era of fame.
Point is as Bert Sorrels ones said. The Test of a dog is the Show . The test of a famely is Time .
I have a weak spot for old famelys that are tight bred with the ocasional out when needed ,that stood the test of time.
Today most of the legends of the past are gone and dead. and the nolige of these breeders hase been lost for a great deal. people also dont realize that pre 1974 there where alot of god fearing HOUNEST people involved sure there have always been crooks, but afther 1974 lots of these people left the seen. In the 90,s the dogs showed up in the cities and other groops of people got involved the ones who shouldend be.

The modern Pepsi cola generation breeders/dogman of today have a compleatly diferend aprotch and no clue how this breed hase been invented and divelopt and maintained.
sometimes im looking for those awesome pedegrees we used to see in the late 70,s and 80,s and 90,s you could reconzie a famely bred dog and could spot one of the particulair dogs of those famelys imidiatly.
today lots of diferend names in peds ,to many to make out what the foundation is nor what trowback they are.. and this is and was aczackly my point about Type and coloration.
Everybody can spot a grch art nigerino bred famely dog ore a boudraux dog ore a alligator dog ore a Tombstone bolio bred dog from Patricks yard ecetera. But today 70% of what im looking at and see on the internet hase no carasteristic make up to reconize these famelyes.. Its damm shame..

 

limey , have you ever thought about writing a book ? j

 

This is very very true

 

Jacko we have been taking about it ocasionaly.. one thing is for sure one chapter will be named Bulshit Around Bulldogs!!!!, but sins im dislectic and partly blind due to my diabeties, its not going to be ez. we could use some serius help in creating a book..

 

limey, i hope you do get one off the ground i for one will buy it ! ps i have no problem understanding your posts !!

 

well Mr limey i for one will tell you that i enjoyed your posts on this forum and have absolute respect for you and every bit of what you say makes sense to me , i am by no means a dogman , just an admirer of the breed , best wishes and good health to you

 

Again Mr.Limey, you only grace us with these posts that you express you every thought, thank You.

what is your feeling about the boudraux dogs, with regards to what I read about them throwing an occasional, Red dog. And that these dogs were meant to be kept as they would be very good, also the fact that the foundation dog ' Blind Billy " and his line is mostly black.

is there a good lesson to be learnt here ?

 

There is enough Bullshit Around Bulldogs to be a seperate book.