People are talking about pure gene pools, let me show you a real pure dog

C'mon Limey, a pure black dog stays black all seasons unless it was black seal, so GR CH Midnight changes color after the clock hits 12? beginning of winter?

A black SEAL dog would change tint during different seasons or depending what time of day it was out in the sun.

Limey the Tan you SEE on Nigger is from him digging up that BIG hole LOL, the color of the dirt is TAN too, maybe that's the tan you see on Nigger LOL Plus that's a really old ass pic, I could be wrong Limey unless we had a better clear pic of Nigger then we would know the real answer.

 

ok i have to agree on the black dog part in the summer.
Had a bitch 17 years ago who was black with white chest like nigger and in the summer she would have red hair at her hip's and a red gloss over her coat.
But nigger was no black and tan dog judging from those pics.

 

Sea serpend like gentelman lets agree to disagree hahah,...

 

gar my aim is not to discredit limey or his dogs in anyway ,limey an i know each other well enuff an i think hes very sharp and observant an has a good understaning of his OWN dogs as for the black an tan in his dogs this has no bearing on bad quality my point was it just aint from the nigger dog theres vidios of carvers yard in the 60s with a puppy pen with several blak an tan pups in, now this was pre bullyson mania every dog on his yard was pure an top bred off varios bloodlines so i dont assoiciate that color with bad breeding at all just that it comes from the carver blood in rufus i think the pictutre in question does make nigger look like hes got black an tan traits but its just the light but it does apear that way in that shot so not hard to see why it was suspected ,i post on mayfield because hes probly the most lied about misrepresnted man in the breed and when it comes to acusing him of sour grapes we need to look at who had what back then for example the old lighter blood fitwaters ch goldie mayfeild matched an won with that dog an it was the best of it they bred it to tudors yard to create zeke . mert ch big liz ch big louie pit genral all matched by mayfield another well known dog from those lighter x tudor croses is ch butcher boy etc now whole bloodlines been bred off dons leftovers ,,patrick bought bolio down from the tudor ligher crosses made by mayfeild an bred it to tomestone blood who he got from mayfield so why on earth sour grapes ?everyone was trying to get his dogs not other way round ? the tomestone dog was matched an won with mayfeild whole bloodlines been bred off those dogs the alligator dog mayfeild matched an won with him an matched more than any man with that family blodlines were bred from an SOLD from why on earth would he have sour grapes ?mr hammonds pride an joy was a dog named bruno he had him perfoming tricks to the crowd in the pit before his match ,,mayfeild killed bruno bringing a smaller you guesed it aligator nigger dog up two pounds an giving away weight just to get it on,,cant see a reason for sour grapes on mayfeilds part there either,, limey you mentioned mayfeild claiming dogs like he needed to claim a thing off anyone he did not he was not trying to compete with dealers on sales he claimed a handful out of thousands had false pedigrees an he supported it with evidance the eli dog is one famous one and mayfeild wernt the only one who could see eli wernt out of boudreuxs stok EVERYONE who knew cry baby knew ,it just a coicicance the camera jammed on eli just like maverik and another coicidance that since maverik the boudreux dogs look more like nigger dogs than any other line cmon be fair,as for banjo he dont look like any other bloodline than mayfeild the man to ask about him is coy dikerson not those selling the line just like mayfeild was the one to ask about nigger aligator dogs not hammonds who known to be the biggest dealer and onto this threads main topic an ch spike limey youve had bad experiances with those with mayfeild dogs in your country im not even gomnna go there as that your buisness but that got nothing to do with mayfeild trying to steal credit or spikes breeding i think the pics you posted ilustrate it perfectly look at nigger look at alligator look at spike very easy to see all bred from same family very very alike now look at rufus what the hell happned ?i will tell you what happned as there no mysteries only bullshit ch spike was the purest from the aligator family in the world rufus is one of the most outcross they are at oposite ends in the purity spectrum of the aligator family and show it in every possible way, satin lady is NOT aligators dam black beuty is so rufus is very much how his pedigree shows alligator completly outcrossed what baffles me is alligator won mayfeild was winning with his offspring yet rufus did nothing shows to be nothing more than scatterbred yet you still buy into it ,the hardest genes to come out of that family were the black genes one of the last was maverick some of the purest is ch spike and pit genral another extemly well bred hard dog from the black genes again STOLEN from mayfeild gar you might be intersted to know mayfeild himself said of limeys dogs if you put the TRUE ped on them ,,namely spike an tomestone ,,there as game as anyone would ever need he also called the magic x jenny cross the hardest cross in the game mr hammonds is a dog dealer like boudreux they have each sold already many more dogs than mayfeild an tudor did in there whole lives combined now thats ok but there is a diffrence like the quote limey made on show me a cattle man with one bull an ill sjhow you cattle man outta buisness BUISNESS is the key word there for me ,, so to sum up my insult to limeys dogs is that they are simply BETTER bred than the pedigree shows i have no interst in ganging up on people or in promoting modern day limey or mayfeild dogs let them with em prove em but i do have an interest in truth over bullshit in these dogs
ps who knows whos who

 

Part Truth part BS, i leave it at that.

 

Hi there!

Just sent Limey a picture of my newest Bullterrier male!
He´s what we call a black brindle and this is how this colour works!
They can fool people by not watching closely that they appear to be black but in real they are massively brindle dogs with biggest parts of black inside their coats.
So if there is bright sunlight on them you can detect this trait or by carefully watching their coat.
They do lighten up in summer and they do get darker within winter season, this happens to many Staffordshire Bullterriers aswell!
The pics I sent to Limey to post them show the same dog from a slightly different ankle. The first picture was taken in spring as he started to lighten up, the second is a recent picture!
I´ll have to look if I have a decent wintershot of the same dog that could lead you to the conclusion that this one would be a solid black dog!

This dog was out of a tricoloured female and a solid brindle dog.

So these dogs do genetically transmit black and tan but they aren´t what we call black and tan dogs!

So might Nigger was a black brindle?

 

just saw your pictures, but for some rezen i can not file them . it thusend matter . the debate is there. afther a bs start ..

 

Couldn´t manage it either!
That´s just my lack of pc abilities!

 

my dog monster changed color, looked black but during the spring and summer months had a red color tint to him that would make up a saddle on his back an shoulders, his half sister didn't do this. granted he was of a black sire to a brindle dam. his half sister black to black. also i think that some lighter colors than black such as brown, gray, blue, ect. when on the darker side and alot of them make dogs look black. where we come up with seal, which alot of people think is black. i right now have a banjo/tina dog that is a very light buckskin in the winter, but is a red buckskin in the summer she is half way through shedding her white or bleached hair right know. still being young and in game can't see why old timers are fighting over color regardless of why a good dog is where you find it even if you don't know how it was bred

 

Hi there!

Because there are some coloration that simply couldn´t happen if you are breeding one colour to another!
For example if a white dog is bred to a white dog you won´t end up with black ones!
Quite simplyfied but that´s how it works basically!
So there are some colors that also could be considered typical for a certain line.
Limey put out an article back then that was called using colour type selection.
There´s much more to create a solid and good line of dogs as just breeding winners to winners.
Each line has its trademarks aswell as its pros and contras.
So if you are linebreeding you have to ensure that the pedigrees or ancestry of your dog is correct and try to maintain the positive traits of your and if possible add some with an outcross to improve them.
There´s much more than only winner to winner its about the all arround dog what means style, body structure, ability, intelligence etc.
Sometimes you can easily detect if you have false pedigrees on your dog / dogs by knowing how a typical dog from your line of choice is acting, build and (often) coloured.
That´s all simplyfied but will give you an idea of the matter discussed.

 

here is a picture of Limey kennels Sioux en her brother Tusker eurly 90,s both out of Nelis ROM X Preudens, altho this topic whent south i still whant to share the picture . Tusker in this picture is not a black and tan like his sister . but 2 months afther this picture in full summer he was

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doginhold what colors can come out of white to white? Is white considered recessive?

 

Which dog in the pic is Sioux and which is Tusker? Didnt Prudence have the same colouration as the dog on the left?
Thanks for posting the pic.

 

I pretty much agree with everything redbeard said a couple posts up.

 

Tusker is the dog on the left, picture pruedens inc

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White! The only colour that appears if you breed them together!
White is genetically considered a sum up of all colours!
Only thing you can tell if a dog might has a certain coloration in his genetical background is if he has a patch that could be of any colour available!
I´m not that much into recessive or dominant genetic blabla!
But if it would help many of the English Bullterrier breeders could advise you what kind of coloration you get if you mix some colours up together!
This was important as the Bullterrier back then was only bred for white coloration and as they did allow coloured Bullterriers they did some outcrossing to the white lines to avoid defness etc. Therefore they all pretty much have a clue what colour produces what colour!

 

Thanks, I was pretty sure I read were white was considered recessive along with blue. I saw a white female and blue male produce pups that were fawn/white and black/white with black noses. Just trying to understand the genetics of color. lol

 

Believe me, it took me a hell of a time too!
And still I have not a perfect clue!
I do have a site, but it´s all written in german that explains it quite simple!
Maybe you´ll just check them English Bullterrier pages and you´ll find the basic rules!

 

Colour is one of the easiest things to understand in genetics, have a look at these :
http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=101

http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=47

 

All white bull terriers have some colour. Just that it is not there for the eye to see. You will learn by the offspring & what colour they carry.