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Gameness

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by Jacob, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    The willingness to go on no matter the odds. I know some say they will quict to heat maybe couple other things that can be excused but can we get a more solid statment.I read a oldtimer say length of time should be 2 hours others say thats wrong.Also are there any pics of real gamers not fastlaners even if they were 1 time out but showed high level of GAMENESS
     
  2. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Most matches now days don't go 2 hrs .Back in the day a lot of them went long and it was basically 2 game plugs goin at it..Dibo came along and changed all that .He added talent and finish to the game .Thing about those matches that go that long it makes it harder to save your dog.
     
  3. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Best matches with the most action go around the hour mark.jmo
     
  4. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Yes Bama but just trying to stay away from the action jackson guys i know their good but what would you say about their gameness, Im almost sure Europe has some 3 and 4 hour shows probably some soft mouth dummmies but more game for sure.
     
  5. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Beauty of it lies in the eye of the beholder.
     
  6. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Yeah somthing about going the distance. dont get me wrong i love action. but going the distance keeping just out of reach coming from the bottom pace it pace it gothcha where where i want ya. I love those Mohammed Ali fights 8 rounds 14 rounds i aint going nowhere and when im done you aint going to be the same
     
  7. Jolene

    Jolene Pup

    'Gameness' is being willing to die for the cause.
     
    DISCOIII and corvettedex like this.
  8. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Yes thank you Jolene but what is excusable(cannot be judged on)if the animal quits i know heat is one and there are a few others. When looking for it should only be done by someone who know what to look for like body language you dont need to take the dog to deaths door. I know you dont mean that but im looking for somone who knows for sure signs. I read an old article said he was game cause thats how he went out and i thought who would let a gamedog go that far what an idiot but then i read another that said your only checking a certain depth cause the next time out the dog says once is enough so what do you do hes game hes good.
     
  9. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    Well realistically a dog is as game as his last scratch. And when they stop they ain't game no more. As far as excuses about why a dog quit, there isn't an excuse when another man's dog quits, most just have them when there dog quits! Imo as long as a dog wants to go and goes across to do it it's game. And imo gamedogs don't stop cuz it's hot outside

    Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
     
  10. stinkrock

    stinkrock Top Dog

    A dog will show you when it doesn't want to be there anymore,their eyes and body movement. JM2C
     
    DISCOIII likes this.
  11. TROTLINE

    TROTLINE Top Dog

    That's right Cajun I have seen A dog with his whole front end gone well over two hrs. released his chin hit the carpet and try and push him self forwad with just his back legs! I have seen two tinny gyps like 12 to 14 lbs.. A hot summer night go tit for tat over 3 hrs. both give out and both go'n ito shock, they would have layed there and died in holt! That is pretty damn game! The handlers picked them up and I think both survived,, I was busy but I heard so my people wanted to buy either one! Saw an old dog called ""Carpet Back" he won all three from the bottom them "great' dogs just got hot and tired and gave up trying to kill him!! I guess what I'm trying to say that breeding "Game Enough To Win' can bite you in the ass!
     
  12. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    There is no real definition of gameness. It is far too subjective. It has far too much perception. What I think is game does not mean the next guy will think the same. Seldom will two people agree on what gameness is, much less what it takes to prove gameness. To quote the great philosopher Forrest Gump, "I am not a smart man", so I keep it simple. Gameness is the willingness to continue. Each person can then add some superlatives and adjectives and scenarios to give themselves the warm fuzzies. If it is 99 degrees and he has the willingness to continue then he is game. If he chooses not to, then he is not game.


    Variables and perception. The goal is to win. The object is to put the dog in the best possible situation, the best possible set of circumstances in order to win at a given weight. Most believe fatigue and frustration finds the cur most often. The object then becomes put them in the best possible condition to win and that superb conditioning may hide the cur that is there. In superb condition he goes two plus hours. If time is the grade then he is game. Next time out he is on a lesser dog but not in great shape. He is winded and tired and frustrated and he hangs it up in 25.


    Only now he is a cur, or was he a cur in the two hour mark but superb conditioning hid it? Variables and perceptions because no one can really answer the question. Put him back in shape and he goes another 2 hours on an even better dog. Now is he game again? Odds are he does not get that chance because 'game' and 'cur' can't be absolutely defined.


    Take Mountain Man's Bandit. I know two older gentleman who both saw him stand in the corner. They were there. Not internet hear say. One says he was in shock and had been stopped. The other says he quit on all fours. They had so much conviction in their beliefs of what a game dog was it led to many a fight. I mean friendship ending, name calling, damn near fist fighting over someone else's dog that neither of them had in a pedigree. Same dog, same story, both watched the same thing at the same time. Two entirely different opinions. And would fight for what they believed.


    Dude who is now out of the dogs kept the gamest strain of Eli dogs ever. When they were old enough to make the chain tight they were old enough for a shot of action. Many a young dog who was mentally unprepared and physically unable to handle what was given to them "quit" or "curred". Lots of opportunity lost but in the end every dog on that yard that made it to two years old had made a number of trips to death's door, most had put one foot inside the door. 30 plus dogs that would take their death going forward. The number of dogs in that wake is out of this world high. I say they were not ready and did not quit because they never started. But that is my opinion and my perception of what is needed to find a game dog. He had 30 plus dogs that had made the trip and were willing to make it again and again. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and say 2, maybe 3, of 10 made the grade. Based on perception and opinion we can argue about those other 7 to 8 until the cows come home.


    So for every definition of gameness I will give you two more that is just as accurate with a dog that serves as validation for whatever the particular definition of gameness being used.


    To make our selves feel better we expand the perception of gameness to pit game, or deep game or even dead game. I avoid those terms the best I can and leave it at he made his last scratch and he looked like he would make the next. Then the next conversation arises, Would he have really went? I think so but I do not really know.


    Ozzie Stevens once said, I can't tell you what he will do next time. I can only tell you what he did last time. And the reason I am betting on him the next time is based on what he did the last time. Or in so many words.


    You can read his statement with a gameness perception and it means one thing. Or maybe he was talking about winning, which multiplies the dynamics of the perception exponentially.


    It is almost as perplexing as the 'chicken or the egg'.


    S
     
    Thunder98 likes this.
  13. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Slim that was a great post , I don't think it could be said any better..Many of times 2 , 3 or 4 dogmen looked at the same dog and all had different opinions.Good post.
     
  14. TROTLINE

    TROTLINE Top Dog

    ^^^^ Totally I agree II'm not as good A writer as you! LOL But you are correct A dog might all day for one person and head to the bleachers with somebody else! To me the WORST is one that QUITS on top! Has the other whipped and wants to sit next to the owner and watch the next one!! I saw Jim S. take A dog that stood the line at under 30 min. He got that dog and matched him back into the original owner and the dog never looked back won it and another!! I have the opinion it just dosnt take A good dog but conditioner and handler,it's all tied together!
     
  15. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    Yes sir the man handling the dog has a lot to do with it. Some know what it takes to get thAt water deep outta the well. That's where building a strong bond with a dog plays it's part in my mind. I seen one once that was raised by this fella and showed to be a deep deep game dog and finally won in 1:54, showed so good a fella gave him a nice chunk of change for that dog, next time out dog stood on all fours on.his first scratch looking at the guy who paid big money for him like you go over

    Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
     
  16. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Guys Sports Illustrated wrote a article about a dog that would not quit even though he could not stand but tried to go across anyway i guess that means hes good till last scratch and that is "willingness" right there unbroken I agree. Also when you a gametest let me know if im wrong "do nothing that would give your dog the advantage" you want to see when odds are aganist him like reasonable body weight but not conditioned as this could give him the edge making it go on longer making more unnecssary(good spelling eh} dammage also he should have a bigger opponnent so he will be on the bottom. I know there are a few rules to to the person who knows what to look for and they can be close cause they know just by looking at the ped(if they seen it before that dogs from this line good for 30 min max) or no i think this one is deep just like his forestuds in any case i think you can be close if you know and even then its a gamble.
     
  17. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    I call bullshit on anybody looking at a ped and saying if one is game from the ped.

    Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
     
  18. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    You can't judge a line of dogs gameness of what one from the line done.

    Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
     
  19. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Ok so redboy dogs were known for high amount of game ones is that safe to say. I know each one will be at different levels some will be cold but overall.
     
  20. hwm

    hwm Big Dog

    Exactly. I've seen the same thing. I'm a firm believer in if a dog can't breathe, he's going to stop.
     

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