game

Just in response to the original post, this is why I am so intense about Pitbulls not being good "guard dogs" on forums.

Any info that can be misinterpreted, will be. The worse people will take whatever you say and RUN with it. So you've got to be careful.

 

Well you can still have game bred APBTs, maybe they are game and maybe not. They certainly are not Staffs. Breeding should be left to the keepers of the breed. As I said before thorough understanding and foresight will be required to maintain the future of this breed, let the experts do their job....but the idiots should be stopped.

 

tommy great post! I hate to say it but I agree. The reason I hate to say it is because this site has taught me soooooo mutch over the last 2 years. Im from the city,miles & miles from any real dogmen.As a matter of fact I,ve never met one in my city. However there are plenty of assbackward streetfighters. Thanks to this site (and others like it) I have learned what makes a real dogman and the diffrence between a true pitbull and a cur. I have lerned the true history of the breed. This site convinced me to do my reserch and truely educate myself on the breed. In my situation this site hurt my ego.It taught me I dident know a damn thing about these dogs.I had to come to grips with the fact my 80 pound pit bull was more of a am staff/game dog mix and was not worthy of being breed. I credit this site with helping me change my morals and helping me realise that if you are not improving the breed you are destroying the breed. If not for this site I would have breed my dog. I was well on my way to doing so. I had made frends with alot of puppy pedlers that I thought were dogmen. Me and these fake dogmen had planed alot of breedings within our circle. I would have went threw with these breedings and sold each and every one of the pups the whole time being so completly ignorant that I would have never known the harm I was doing. Looking back on it thank god for this site because if not for it I would have became exactly what I now dipise. A byb with no intagrity in his breeding program. I have since severd all ties with these so called dogmen and threw this site have established relationships with some real dogmen. I now have axcess to some topnotch yards and some hard to get blood along with the knowlidge and advice of these real dogmen. Will I start breeding now? no! why? Well ,Im still continuing my education baby! I feel privlidged to be a member of a site that is teaching so many about our great breed but I FEAR THAT THE INFORMATION ON THIS BOARD IN THE WRONG HANDS OR IN THE HANDS OF A NEWBE THAT DOSENT HAVE THE PATIENTS TO EDUCATE THEMSELFS PROPERLY COULD HARM THE BREED.

 

That's why the whole truth needs to be passed and not just a dabble about gameness. To this day I still talk to my mentor every couple of days and learn something new every week. Proper guidance is essential if you plan to keep gamedogs. To play devil's advocate a bit..

Why didn't you continue to help the man instead of looking the other way when he showed some obvious intrest in the gamebred dogs? I think you should have continued to follow up and help him learn the right way to maintain and keep a gamedog.

Regards,

B

 

I did. I told him that they were nothing like what he is used to and it will take alot of work to properly raise it in his situation. He has virtually no yard, 3 other dogs, and spends all of his time smoking weed instead of taking care of what is important. I told him the truth. He agreed to what I was saying at the time and never bothered me about the dogs again.
It wasn't until saturday that I found out that everything I said was actually going in one ear and out the other.


I absolutely respect what you are saying regarding telling the entire truth regarding gameness. I know, without a doubt, that you are one of the most knowledgable people on here. I was anxious to see what you had to say. But I can't see what good it is to have everybody on the Internet trying to gametest their dogs to prove that they are breeding true APBTs. However, as you said, personal guidance is essential. No matter how much you think you know, you can learn more. Yet, Internet learning and actual guidance from a knowledgable person firsthand are two compleletely different things.
The odds of it being done incorrectly are too high regardless, whether or not the entire truth is being told. A person can read the information all day on the Internet but that will not mean that they will be able to play the game as it should be played.
That is why I believe that if you are meant to be breeding game dogs, it shouldn't be done according to information based on the Internet. It should be based upon actual guidance.

People only see what they want to see. Just because it is spelled out word for word on the Internet, it does not mean that they will comprehend.
On the other hand, if someone was actually guiding them step by step....

Consider this: Of all the information regarding gameness on here, and all the people that have read it, how many people do you think are actually doing it right?
In my opinion, if it is not done absolutely right, it is done absolutely wrong.

I guarantee all of this talk of gameness does not create exceptional dogmen that we will hear of in the future. It will create backyard fighters.
The ones that leave a positive mark on the breed are the ones that have been showed the ropes by knowledgable dogmen. They aren't created on the Internet.

Therefore, I can't see what good it is to persuade people to breed for gameness in a public forum.


I guess it boils down to what we think is more important.

Fighting a losing battle to convince breeders to stop breeding dogs for looks (and breed for gameness) and further ruining a name (APBT) that has already been ruined.

or

Protecting the game dogs from unknowledgable people and having a possible uproar of dogfighting and improper breeding that will eventually turn our little game dogs into unstable shits. (This is just what I think is possible)

I don't know about you but I sure as hell don't want the game bred dogs to turn into the next fad.
Imagine the problems we will have then...

I really think that the circle should be closed. The public discussion of gameness in present terms and persuading people to breed for it does not close the circle. It eliminates it.

 

Tommy you said everything I have thought to say since I joined this forum. From the moment I joined (BOOM) I was hit with game and what it is and how to prove it and so on, but just when I was going into the direction of just getting game dogs I came across a mentor on this site and I THANK THIS FORUM FOR THAT. Any way, thx for posting that and that is like marty said the best advise I've seen in awhile.

 

I think you have taken some info the wrong way. We dont believe in 99 % of the APBT population breeding these dogs, and we in no way encourage illegal acts to further the overpopulation crisis! The first point we have tried to get across is "dont breed your mutt", and as a off-shoot of that "only professional dogmen with world-class game dogs should be breeding". I think its at this point alot of the selective hearing people simply hear "game dogs should be bred" with no respect for the fact they are not professional dogmen with world-class dogs, but rather just ignorant scum with dogs bought from the classifieds paper.

Is there anything we can do to stop the "selective-hearing" crowd from taking only what suits their cause from a post, and making it into something completely diffrent from the intentions of the post...I dont know. I dont believe the answer is to stop discussing gameness entirely however-to do such would be a great injustice to the breed.

 

I know that is that what is trying to be implied. I also said that people will only hear what they want to hear. That is the problem with the Internet. That is basically what this thread is about.
I absolutely understand why you and others feel that it is an injustice to the breed to not tell them what the breed is supposed to be bred for.
However, I have gotten to the point to where I think it is an injustice to bring the true form of this breed into the forefront as it is on this forum. It is just my opinion and I am doing nothing more than stating it.
I am not implying that we should stop talking about gameness. Not at all.
I am just trying to say that we shouldn't tell anyone and everyone to breed for gameness. It may be an injustice in a sense but it is also an injustice to have quality dogs mishandled in the hands of unknowledgable people.. Once again, just my opinion. I'd rather let people continue breeding mutts with the APBT name than bring those same people into gamedogs and cause problems. This breed isn't for everyone.
No matter what we do, the breed will always have a bad name and encouraging people to breed for gameness over the Internet won't help our situation. No matter what, the quality dogs will continue to be produced by quality dogmen, even if the breed is banned. I don't see the need for any new blood running into the game based on information they got from a computer screen and as a result doing it incorrectly or just causing an increase in dogfighting.


What it boils down to, I strongly believe that we should close the circle.

Everything I said is just my opinion but I feel very strong about it. I didn't start this thread expecting support. I just hope that it causes people to sit back and think for a while.

 

so is "game" needed in weight pulling? Why do we still need game in our dogs. I know it is a distingiushing charcteristic but if they arnt in the pit anymore i cant really see why we would need it. unless it is needed for something like weight pulling. If it is illegal to fight your dogs then why do they need to be game?

 

I understand where your coming from Tommy,and although I dont share the exact same views I can respect your opinion. Something does need to change within the breed, what that is, I doubt any of us have a definitive cure-all answer.

 

No game is not needed for weight pull. Drive & working abilty yes gameness no. most of us dont need a dog that is Game.

 

Excellent post. Those are some really good points to seriously think about. Rep points to ya.

 

You are right most of us don't need a game dog, and the simple truth is most of just don't know if we have a game dog or not. I believe a dog is or isn't and most of us will never know............just keep your dogs safe and busy and the rest of the world will be satisified.

 

I feel the exact same way. I used to read some of the posts in here and be like damn they are really harsh in here but after listening to reasoning, I completely understand why and appreciate the lessons learned. Although I have not really made any "friends" in here, I do consider all that have helped me learn as "mentors". I continue to learn more and more everyday and look forward to learning more in the future as it comes. I too was once like you and was well on my way to breeding but from being a member in here, I have learned that there is so much more to the breed and understanding the whole breeding process. I have dedicated my time to learning, understanding and educating myself about the breed as a whole and respecting the breed for what it was, what it is and what it will be. Not only that, I do not want to be a contributing factor to the breeds bad rap as it is having enough of a hard time without my help. I have the utmost respect for those great dogmen and women (past, present and future) So, on that note, I say thank you to all in here for their help and contributions.