Eli is always the way.

wasn't jeep is a eli cross himself

 

Sorry but Incorrect.

 

jeep is a eli CRoss who s honeybunch daddy

 

Whats so incorrect about the statement? Do the research

 

I don't have to do the research I kno!!...u need to prove that they do!!...if I'm wrong I will tell u that I was wrong but I highly doubt it!

 

I am pretty new to this. Can someone tell me what Eli dogs are known for? I would also like to know about Chinaman? I heard chinaman dogs are known for extreme athleticism.

 

eli dogs are just like any other line, Every one say mouth, well ok, but I dont think they have more mouth than a hard mouth dog of other strains They say they are not as game as other lines, well ok Ive seen them as game as can be % wise Id say my eli strain and crosses are very very game , You see I have had just about every strain in the world at some point, I truly have had threw my life time 1,000 apbt dogs snd I run the eli and crosses my liking is the jeep/redboy eli/carver crosses my self I think they really have it that 4way cross just seems to work well for me.

 

Eli dogs have produced very good dogs over the years, and have produced some not so good dogs also.Just like other bloodlines. I have always liked that Eli blood.The one thing that changes everything in bloodlines/dogs is who has the dogs.Say for example Ozzie has a dog from Eli blood that dog will have a better chance of turning out good to very good because Ozzie was a hell of a dogman. Now take the same dog and Joe nobody has him and just doesn't have any idea how to raise,school,condition a game bred dog for a show,that dog has a less of a% to turn out good.I have always wondered about Zebo being from Eli blood. What is your take on that Gringo?Mayfield,Tudor and many others did the same dirt some more then others.But the switching of papers and stuff like that really ruined bloodlines down the road.I personally hate dog thieves,paper switchers and cheaters(rubbing etc.).I have no respect for the men that did those things.

 

Sounds good. But if you would live to your words, then you would have no interest in ELI dogs at all. Just like me.
Bullyson is probably one of the worst examples ever. A terrible maneater, who quit on all four, and with fake papers. But most of you can easily ignore these facts. That's almost a trademark of this line, which goes back even to a dog like DIBO, who's dam was cold ? Or a cur ? Dibo himself was a late starting dog, who produced a lot of curs, late starting dogs and even cold dogs. All that tight line- and inbreeding on curs, late starters and cold dogs produced what is known today as the ELI strain. But they got mouth ?? What's the reason why dogmen like Tudor himself wasn't interested in inbreeding DIBO dogs ? Just check some older interviews (Ed Crenshaw, R.Fox ...).
DIBO only produced 1 early starting litter. SPIKE, BUCK, JEFF ...
Using him carefully as a cross to the Old Family dogs was a much better thing to do. Something like the SPIKE x BLACK WIDOW dogs.
"... to fire 'em (DIBO dogs) up !"
What I did understood from my history research, is that most dogmen back in those early days, only had acces to the English dogs. The Irish OLD FAMILY dogs were kept in a tight circle. No outside breedings, no crosses, no peddling.
%wise only a few kept those pure and working game little Terriers (oops).
Old dogmen like Colby, Henry, Feeley ... have based their yards on the English bred dogs (Lloyd's Pilot), b u t they were not able to keep em pure. The crosses to the Old Family stuff was what kept it going. I don't know how those early dogmen got their access to the Old Family dogs, if nothing off of them was for sale or at stud. Stealing dogs right from new landed ships could have been one of the ways to get them. ?? However, Irish Old Family dogs were still working in a very pure form, when the English dogs needed those Old Family influence already.
Colby, Henry, Feeley they all had those 'crosses', but still their main foundation was the English bred dogs. They used the Irish Old Family shot as a cross to keep their own English stuff working, and they mostly bred back into their own English bred dogs, because that's what they had access to. This is what makes them dogs 'the purest' on the ENGLISH DOGS (Mayfield). But these dogs are not the purest genepools of today. You have to search for the purest (working) Old Family bred dogs, if you wanna see the 'real' purest dogs of today. What about a strain without Tudor's DIBO and without Colby's Dime in the background ? Well known for gameness. Used as a cross in most (if not in all) successfull strains of today.
So, if you want both, honesty and gameness, then it's hard to stay within the ELI family of dogs.
Even if my writing does not look very positive in any way, I'm not calling all of you ELI fans guilty on anything. Just stop ignoring important facts, and you might be able to see what can be made in a better way.
Congratulation to all of you lucky successful ELI/DIBO doggers.
Oops, I did it again. Sorry !

 

Stickler,well since you have the purest of pure from the purest of the old family that made their name in the core of the game I guess you would know.You can't deny that the Eli blood has produced very good dogs.Bullyson and Eli Jr. changed the game back then. Look at the dogs they produced and what those dogs produced. I had dogs from Chivo,Midnight Cowboy,and Boomerang and I was more then happy with them. Now as for not respecting dog thieves,cheaters, and paper switchers.I have said that all those guys back then did dirt.But I don't have any respect for a dog thief.Anybody that can take someones hard work and years of dedication should be shot.I still believe that a good dogman makes all the difference owning these dogs.You don't believe that a dogman like Ozzie,Stp,Rebel, make a difference with the dogs?Floyd did pretty good with Eli dogs.

 

some body reads alot LOL. % wise the old fam dog are not worth a shit now a few guys got some the old fam shid alot of folks dont realize jake wilder didnt want any more Rednose strain dogs FACT ! 1954 I got a letter stating this he was way more into the old donovan dogs , but he had a few dogs Very good red dogs from bert clouse, so what do you think he did with that red blood???? thats right peddled the shit out of it, so think all ya want but the pure bullshit you are into dont hold water that shit aint been pure in your lifetime or mine and think all the bullshit you want there have been plenty of damn fine tight ass bred eli dogs and no you do not have to leave the eli fam just change a strain. Dont come on with that book knowlage acting like you know what the hell went on , stole from ships, never let out . what ever they peddled the shit then they peddle the shit now not a damn thing has changed.

 

"Bullyson and Eli Jr changed the game"
Yeah maybe. You probably thinks it changed for the better, and I think it went the other direction.
I believe, of course, good dogmen like Ozzie can make a difference in these dogs.
STP ? Nah
Rebel ? Hell not for the good.
Floyd ? I like honesty and gameness, so ... no.

TJ: Somebody don't read alot. Old Family does not mean Rednose Strains.
There was a common philosophy going around with the Old Family Dogs of Ireland. But color was no factor back in these times.
There is no 'pure' these days. Only tighter and looser bred genepools. I'm only talking about working dogs. No work - no talk.
It wasnt easy to get em (original) Old Family dogs 100 yrs ago, and it's not gonna be easier. Everyone with pit dogs today have a big shot of those Old Family genetics in their dogs. This genetic is the most important part in our dogs today, this is what keeps them going. Cold dogs, late starting dogs and curs are coming from the other side in these dogs.
J.P Colby was the first known big peddler of Pit Dogs. Not loved by all. Only loved by those who don't cared where they got their stuff from. And so it goes generation after generation. "He did this, he did that. So I can do the same." Without having an own opinion about what's wrong or what's right.
You are all Tudor / DIBO fans. So just read what his opinion was about breeding Dibo dogs. How he used that blood. Tudor did use him in a different way. He did what he did, and he also explained why he did it that way and not the other way.
It's like with Ch JEEP, world leading ROM. BUT J.C.Shaw never did a single breeding with JEEP for his own use. He did use sons and daughters, but never JEEP himself.
What's wrong with J.C. ? lol Everyone knew better than J.C., so he was bred alot.
Well, his daddy quit and got fake papers. Oh, but HONEYBUNCH was his dam, I almost forgot, lol. I better stop here.

 

"I truly have had threw my life time 1,000 apbt dogs"
Are you proud about your way ? Sounds like a dog factory.
But I guess they have been always the best and ever will be at the same top level. Congratulation !

 

lmfao @ you stickler. you didn't know those folks & wasn't alive to see any of those dogs.

 

Whats your point stickler, the old timers favored winning bulldogs (however) they were bred back then as they do today, I've read plenty of history on this breed some of your points are well documented others are just opinoins drawn from what the reader assumes, today whats left of the Old Fam bulldogs are useless for the job the were bred for, its like beating a died horse with all this "yall need to know the truth" talk????jmo

 

stickler you my friend are what I call a book dog man, how maney old dog men do you know, me I have been allover the country to REAL dog mens yards, out of them how maney yards do you think run your oFRN????? come on how maney people do good with it???? the last GAME red strain dogs, (Dont think all my old red stuff if OFRN) alot of people said that I would not say how they were bred, alot would lie and say I got them from the only person I would even think about a red nose blood dog from that right Morgan is the only one in the last 15 years that had ofrn dogs half as good as what is out in other lines. and the truth is I dont think he has a lot of that stuff any longr, so what does that tell you. If they are so fuqin good and pure why dont other folks use them and dont even say they are kept close bullshit( those dogs are peddled every day of the week some place. like I said bullshit every thing you wrote is bullshit Stickler, be honest with your self , (when you get home from JrHigh) to day go out and kiss your pet bull and be very thankfull u have him. but Rember this your ofrn is a petbull he comes down from petbulls and Im sorry but with what you are using you are not going places. And you ARE a book dogman and a reader if you really belive all that bullshit about all eli strains are not as game as others. LOL some of the games ands DEAD game dogs I have seen were eli crosses and eli dogs. and 1,000 dog aint shit Boy I have had dogs probley longer than you been breathin air, so go ahead and talk all that bullshit you want butyou ARE wrong very wrong and a man that is so thickskulled to think another strain is all currs is a fool who I love to take money from.

 

Education is always good but what you do with what you learn is even more inportant, and what better education is there than hands on experience. If your evaluations dont come from that then how can you ever come to an honest conclution? I believe thats mans curse!

 

and stickler you are acting as those dogs 150 years ago have something to do with your dogs, man what ever great blood that was in those dogs has been pissed away, those dog are long gone, Now on the other hand if you want a good game dog that hass it all and you have a real chance of keeping it close and tuned up well go on and get you a eli dog, I tell you what go out back and cull that one or two dogs you got and I send you a nice breeding pair of good dogs, BWAAAAHAAAAHA

 

I do know that I'm not talking to Newsters here. And as you can see from my bad english style, I'm no american.
But how many times I still have to say that I'm not talking about OFRN ???
I'm talking about well bred good working quality dogs. Whole strains of good working quality dogs, because of well made breedings. If this is what you all keep, then more power to you. But it's still allowed to have doubts about it, right ?
I'm NOT saying breeding ELI dogs is bad per se. I'm also NOT saying everything else is better. A good breeder is a good breeder is a good breeder, no matter what kind of blood he is using. How he is using 'his' blood and how it works out for 'him' is much more important.
Different people have different priorities. And I have set mine straight, too. I just want the best possible quality. Ignoring facts is of no help. I'm also at an age were I'm very honest to myself. I'm still lying to other people, no problem. But if I start again to fool myself, then I'm done. I know what I like. I know what I want. I don't wanna raise 1000+ dogs. I can't show dogs every single week for the next 20 yrs to come. All I want is that 1-2% on top. All that talk about "best to best" or "good dogs are where you find them" is somewhat strange. You just need to know where to look for. But what if you can't get your first choice of dogs ? What are you going to do ? Are you leaving the game or are you just looking to the left and to the right and choose the next best possible dog ? Well, so often times people are always only asking what the dogs can do good to them. But the question should always be 'what you can do good for the dogs?".
It says: breed best to best, hope for the best and forget about the rest ! Crazy, if you ask me. But if you can't get a hold of the best dogs to your knowledge, then it's gonna be like: Forget about the best, breed to the rest and still hope for the best. All it takes to make you famous today is one single hard mouth dog, preferably with ELI somewhere in his ped. And then say hello to the peddlers world. What kind of breeding-style is that ?
If I know where to find the best dogs imo, but can't get it, then I'm done.
The second choice is no option, if you want the best and if you are honest to yourself. I for myself have found already what I'm looking for. But if the breeder don't wanna give me some of his stuff, then I'm out. And what can I say, I don't have a single dog right now. I'm free !
My personal dilemma is I can get it. Already got it. And I know I can't get any better. Well, I love pit dogs, so almost everyting else in my life went wrong, lol, I'm a looser in real life. That's for sure. So I'm just waisting times with reading and thinking. But it sucks that thousands of other guys with less knowledge can easily keep 20-100 dogs at the same time. Not their fault that they can do what they do. Do they got the full understanding of what they are doing ? Obviously not ! The dogs are the ones who have to pay for this 'lifestyle". Many dogs have died this winter, because it's winter !!
This can't happen, if you truly love these dogs. Damn, what a softie huh ! Pit dogs shoud have no trouble surviving a hard winter on a 3 foot chain without food for days. How funny is that ?
Maybe I'm just jealous and sound bitter because of this.
I don't even know if I deserve to keep the best. Are you asking yourself the same question ? Or is this just an ego bizz ?
However, the ELI dogs are a huge part in this game. AND THAT'S GOOD !

 

WTF ever dude just though a guy has 20 dogs dont meen they are not well cared for . shit my yard is picked up two times a day new chips every week, sprayed kennels every day feed the best dont start that if a guy has a few dog his caretaking sucks, boy you are rubbing me wrong, you aint no fucking dog man you read thats it." piss off you fake ass wanta be punk", grow up and go ahead and chase gost with your old fam shit it dont matter you aint no dog man any way you dont have a dog now, do the world a favor dont get involved with game dogs it is dumbass es like your self who are screwing up every thing you dont know a damn thing yet you spuew shit out like you are the next carver piss off dont they say that alot over there??