A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

They are gorgeous! I read the weight range is between 140-200lbs which is massive, I have seen 200lb animals but 285 just can't be possible! At least not unless it's a world record. I was just reading-up on this breed some more and they sound even better than I remember. Anyone own one of these?

Also known as the Tosa Token or Japanese Mastiff

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Please inform me of some recent matches that have gone into the 2+ hour range. Then compare the numbers from old to the numbers of today and you will see what I mean.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

why did japanes cross bulldogblood in there lines....if the tosa is better
I’d guess the same reason they cross Pointers, Great Danes, Mastiffs, St. Bernard’s, etc.-called creating a breed! The above statement shows you knowledge-severely lacking! Yes some look like coonhounds...others like filas...ok that makes a sense...like you sayd they cross pointers,great danes, mastiffs, St. bernhards and so on in her lines.....Hmmmm....and then you sayd this thing about Zebo....3lbs more and he had a problem.....but you know he never fought against souch mix hybrids...or? If he fight against another well bred bulldog...ok you have to watch the weight....but against pointer bernhard mastiff somewaht more? Come on....lol Texas bulldog you do me wrong if you think i have no idea ...and i respect other old breds....but i know(and you too )how a little bulldog is able to outsmart a big and strong dog.....its sometimes unbelievable...but you know...not just dogs...B u l l d o g s

</ST1:p

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Yes some look like coonhounds...others like filas...ok that makes a sense...like you sayd they cross pointers,great danes, mastiffs, St. bernhards and so on in her lines.
Since when did dogmen start caring about the “looks” of a performance dog? The breeds mentioned were hardcore working canines a hundred plus years ago and not the empty shells they are today. But it seems to be beyond your grasp to realize it yet probably clueless to the fact many of the same breeds used to breed to their native Spitz dogs to start the creation of the Tosa Ken was also the same used in the creation of the APBT. You are trying to place too much emphasis on the various breeds that was used-its constant evolution and breeding for the box/ring that’s made the Tosa Ken what it is today! Much like with the ABPT and Am Staff their will be a huge difference between the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:country-region w:st=Japan </ST1:p</st1:country-region>bred Tosa’s and the Western bred ones.

Hmmmm....and then you sayd this thing about Zebo....3lbs more and he had a problem.....but you know he never fought against souch mix hybrids...or?
What’s a “mix hybrid”? If you’re calling the Tosa Ken a mixed hybrid…what would you consider the APBT? Only an imbecile or one that’s never worked a dog or competed themselves would not think weight has a huge advantage! If in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pJapan</ST1:p</st1:country-region> seek some of the kennels that raise both breeds and compete-easy win for you. I’d be highly impressed if you have or have even petted an APBT that could last 10-15 minutes with a true box/ring bred Tosa. The ABPT is lb for lb the best dog but given the size of the Tosa Ken most don’t stand a chance!

If he fight against another well bred bulldog...ok you have to watch the weight....but against pointer bernhard mastiff somewaht more?
Again you’re trying to compare the breeds used in its make-up like it was done recently. If you consider the Tosa Ken a mix you damn sure better consider the APBT and a host of other breeds “mixed”! But you’re arguing a point you yourself are clueless about! Odds are you’ve never seen a Tosa and if you have it’s been an over sized mutts. You also think of the show prancing fat UKC “pit bulls” are the same as a proven game-bred APBT?

Come on....lol Texas bulldog you do me wrong if you think i have no idea ...and i respect other old breds....but i know(and you too )how a little bulldog is able to outsmart a big and strong dog
You don’t have a clue nor know what you’re talking about or else you’d realize and view the facts-majority of the time a Tosa will kill a game-bred APBT…gameness is seldom a factor. Much like with certain bloodline in the APBT-handlers don’t plan on their dog being in their long enough to see its gameness and know if after said “time limit” if the other dog isn’t dead or picked up their dog will quit. It’s one thing to like and prefer a breed of dogs and something totally different to think of them machines that can overcome any obstacle. Much like with humans the best 100-120lb wrestler in the world the majority of the time couldn’t beat the average heavyweight wrestler-size won’t allow it nor do they have the strength. The heavyweight wrestler will pummel and have his way with the lighter one.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Well tex, what you dont know about people, you should research....Like i said before, I do not knock the Tosa at all. It is a great gladiator, and yes my dog did perform in an unrecorded match against the tosa, but it was completely by the rules of a proffecianal scratch and he did come out successful. The match was set by a person who wanted to learn more about the APBT, and It was my desicion to match my dog against his already 3 time champ. He was a very friendly person and we are very close today. The tosa is a very competative dog and to me is probably the best in the Heavy weight devision. I respect the animal and its abilitys. What i am alittle distressed about is the fact that you would call someone a liar that you dont know. Im sorry if my comments offended you and I sencerly apologize for any problems that may occure for the ignorance my post might have caused. Like I said, I believe in my breed, period and end of sentance. And that is my point. Thank you.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Well , what you dont know about people, you should research
Hard to “research” when the Japanese dogmen or sanctions club you visited was never stated.

The match was set by a person who wanted to learn more about the APBT, and It was my desicion to match my dog against his already 3 time champ.
Not seeing the logic-Japan has a huge “pit bull” club and registry though not as big as the Tosa clubs. Yet this person wanted to learn from you versus the decades of experienced working kennels in Japan</ST1:p with proven working dogs? I venture to say most of the well known kennels that compete with both breeds have decades more experience than you with both breeds than yourself. Sounds like a roll given you state it was done “rules of a proffecianal scratch” funny how they only use traditional rules or Cajun and the Tosa’s are competed under “traditional rules”.

What i am alittle distressed about is the fact that you would call someone a liar that you dont know.
Not sure what there is too be “distressed about”? I plainly said “lying or went into backyard crap”. Judging by your post it sends many red flags-like you competing against the breed, someone that can easily visit and learn about the dogs, seeks yours, you don’t know what rules you competed under just “rules of a proffecianal scratch”, etc. all of which add up to someone uneducated on the breed and how the Japanese dogmen compete with their dogs or they are simply lying and making stuff up that they read online.

Im sorry if my comments offended you and I sencerly apologize for any problems that may occure for the ignorance my post might have caused.
No need to apologize-only text which doesn’t offend me! Just giving my opinion on the various breeds and what I’ve seen of them.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

have you ever been to Japan Tex? Cause I'm readin alot of "I know this..." and "you dont know about this..." out of your posts. Its is a REGULAR occurance to match APBTs and Tosas over here. Granted, where I am in Japan is completely different than where JapanGame is, but that is the deal. Accept it or not...I've been here for over 3 years, how often do you visit japan? Most out here live by the Cajun rules, and most Matched Tosas are around 95-120 lbs. I have seen both/either sides come out victorious (historically, of course ) . I'm not a fan of the idea of matching Tosas and APBT's...it just doesn't make sense. However, it is a new kind of challenge for both breeds that will definitely make them better match dogs broadening their experience and abilities while in combat. All I'm sayin is...you're pretty damn quick to judge and attack about something YOU probably have no idea about....think about that for a min.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Much aprieciated Iversons pits. by the way tex, you say your here to state your opinion about the breed were as i have seen that you have only stated your opinion about the people who are posting. But in all actuallity, this thread has gottin out of hand because of the back and forth BS. And by the way, i have a pedigree as long as my animals. the APBT has been in my family for 4 generations and will continue on with my children im sure. So as for knowlege on or about the breed and the actions they take place in, I feel that I am decently knowlegable, I dont know everything, but I am very willing to learn as much as possible. Maybe the apologizing was un-needed since this is all just "opinions." Let me throw this out there for the one who post so quickly about something he/she feels they know everything about. "Knowledge is proud that he has learned so much. Wisdom is humble that he knows no more." Research that Tex. Onigaishimasu.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Whe talk about japan or? Hell whats going on in the U S A ....you have allready a radikal regime?

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

I think its better to bred a game 10 time loser then a 10 time multi time winner....

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

have you ever been to Japan Tex?
Yes-as I stated previously. Last time I was there was at the Tokke Tosanki Kyokai tournament. If you’re into that scene there then contact the individual that imported the first Redboy/Jocko dogs (Big JohnXSabre, Little JohnXC.P., HitlerXBlonde, and CycloneXMiss Kitty(?)) to that country and ask him who introduced him to Sonny and his dad.

Granted, where I am in Japan</ST1:p is completely different than where JapanGame is
Well then you should know the guy that imported Ch. Eightball or contact <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:country-region w:st=Japan </ST1 /><st1:country-region w:st=<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = " /><st1:City w:st="on">Fuji</st1:City>’s (double grch) owner in <ST1:pOkinawa</ST1:p. A grandson of Eightball that was a 50/50 Tosa/Pit cross that became Meiken Yokozuna is well known in the lightweight division. There are numerous hardcore dogmen in Okinawa and things don’t vary much between there and mainland <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pJapan</ST1:p</st1:country-region>.

how often do you visit japan?
Not as much as I’d like.

Most out here live by the Cajun rules, and most Matched Tosas are around 95-120 lbs.
How can you say “most” being the Tosa scene is 10 folds that of the pit bull?

However, it is a new kind of challenge for both breeds that will definitely make them better match dogs broadening their experience and abilities while in combat.
How is it “new” it has been happening for decades well before WWII?

All I'm sayin is...you're pretty damn quick to judge and attack about something YOU probably have no idea about....think about that for a min.
When and/or how did “I judge” anyone?

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

I am still searching for the specific post where the 285lb Kangal was mentioned with picture for the meantime, here is another site (I could not access but from the original poster's comments it is of two working Kangals in Turkey. Let me know how they look:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3028/1a1pj.png

Here is another link of working dogs picture (flock protection):

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/2351/50694624eb.jpg

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6103/50694611py.jpg

New addition of a reported Game-bred Kangal: http://www.kangalkopekleri.com/images/sizden_gelenler/halil_ibrahim_sari/23.jpg

Here are other links to what I think are Bully Kuttas (I do not have the ability to view, thus, viewer beware)
*Edit-not appropriate.

Just added:
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/bullykutta/AB%20shaow%20039%20copy.jpg
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/bullykutta/jag5%20adobe.jpg

Here is another of a reported king of the ring (Note that the Toros is 235lbs and 85cm at shoulders):<table class="ev_msg_rowcolor1" style="width: 100%;" align="center" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ev_msg_userinfo">






</td><td><table class="ev_msg_table" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ev_msg_posticon">
</td><td class="ev_msg_timestamp">Posted<script>document.write('<nobr>'+ myTimeZone('Tue, 07 Feb 2006 14:40:37 GMT-0800', '07 February 2006 05:40 PM')+'</nobr>');</script> <nobr>07 February 2006 05:40 PM</nobr> <noscript>07 February 2006 05:40 PM</noscript></td></tr></tbody></table>They aren't scared of any thing!





Like Sherkan
http://www.kangalkopekleri.com/images/sizd...nur_kanli/2.jpg
or Zorba
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/247/zorba7tf.png
or Toros
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/9550/21py1.jpg
or mighty King Duman
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/3292/55606314qc.jpg
or Hoyrat(Sherkans Son)
http://www.kangalkopegim.com/sizden/kaparhoyrat/2.jpg
or Balak(King Balaks Cousin)
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/6817/56067021dh.jpg

And this one u already know
King Balak
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5015/53857814tt.jpg



</td></tr></tbody></table>
I will add to this in a few minutes (I am still searching)

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Here it is! The reported 285lb "game-bred" Kangal:

http://www.intoko.com.tr/photos/c/86/497772_1.jpg

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Hey Iverson Where on the island are you from? I Live in Ok city For 4 years.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

so than you know where Kadena Air Base is at??? Gate 2 area??? That's where im at.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Well then, I retract my previous statements, as it seems you know a bit about the game over here. That is awesome! You may know Troy then??? The Cajun statement was from what I've seen and learned, and wasnt meant to encompass every match that happens in this country. According to the dogmen i've been learning from, Tosa X APBT matches do not happen as much as one might think, but recently, as Tosas have been improving in many areas...it is happening more and more...hints the "new challenge" comment. I have personally only seen 6 such circumstances. I'd like to hear what you know about the history of Okinawan Game Dogs and the Introduction/importation of American Bred champs to the island. That would be really cool. My "sensei", if you will the old dogger i've been under is gone now (in the PI), and I'm leaving soon. It'd be awesome to get a little more info.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

I stayed right out side camp foster.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Rocky's Human, those are some beastly, freakish canines! I still can't believe that they could weigh over 200lbs though, where did you read the weight? I thought you got that info from a forum which could have been posted by anyone (big fish). I would be o-so-amazed if those dogs reach over 200, do you have a ligit source of info on the weights? some kind of official documentation by those involved with the dogs? I would love to know, I hate to be a pain, but I just don't believe it, but if it's true, I really want to know, but I know how much people stretch the truth.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

wow, that is a ginormous K-9 is. it really 295lb?that is amaizin if it is. It looks to be in good shape. Nice pic.