A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

I think that the Bandog could give us a good answer to this size question. Bandogs are the crossing of APBT and large Mastiff breeds such as the Neo Mastiff or the english Mastiff ect. Does anybody know how they perform ?

My suggestion is that if you dont loose to much stamina but increase strenght by adding size, it will make the breed more efficient. Maybe up to maximum 100 lbs, i think that more size takes away to much stamina. But i could be wrong, i have never seen a Bandog in action to have a clear picture so its just a theory

 

Bandogs have been around for decades, if they were superior to the APBT they would have replaced them. The fact is when you cross a Mastiff with an APBT you lose more than you gain.

 

Depends on what the grading scale is. Bandogs are better for man work, guard work and property defense ( not live stock defense). Are some good at hunting? Sure but they are not the best hunting dogs. Could some be placed in a box ? Sure doesn't mean most will win.

The APBT is not meant to guard anything or anyone. So the bandogge has better skills for what it was actually developed for.

 

Makes sense. So you mean you loose to much stamina if you make them bigger?.

 

And gameness

 

sure all around the world they match APBT , very little is done with other breeds , why ruin the best fighting dog by crossing to dogs never used for fighting ?

 

It would be interesting to see how the modern Tosa performs, especially now they have been adding APBT blood now for decades.

 

Yes thats what i ment. Those new Tosas are basicly Bandogs bc of the APBT blood and i have heard that they perform really good. I think it was in this thread where a member postet a link of a video where two of them fighting for 1 hour and 20 minutes or so

 

I like to keep my pits pure. I had a rescue that was a Rottweiler/pit. It was a good dog, strong, still had some gameness, great with the family, but I didn’t like basically having a people aggressive pitbull which is basically what it was.
Some say the tosas are too people aggressive.
The general people friendly is one trait I don’t want to lose with the pit. I always want people friendly pits

 

14 years to late to this interesting thread, but maybe in 14 years from now on people will read this and reply as well lol.

I dont believe that any of those breeds mentioned earlier is a true competitor for the APBT. But there was another interesting question of the creator of this thread : what if we could give the breed size and weight while MENTAINING GAMENESS. I dont know how that should be done, im not a breeder, but if it was possible of course it would be a big improvment for the breed. Imagine a 120 pound game dog, that shits scary. Now some might argue that you loose wind and agility, and thats true if you increase only the weight without size, that would be just another XL Bully. However if you increase the size as well, if you make it taller and longer, things change. Because now its way better balanced, its a good weight to height ratio.
Lets face the truth, if those breeds that where mentioned a few pages back, like the Kangal or the CAO, had the Pitbulldogs gameness, lots of people would breed other breeds today.

But at the end of the day those are a lot of ifs. I dont see how to make a game dog bigger without crossing it to another breed, and that decreases the gameness.
But its an interesting thought. Staying open minded never harmed somebody

 

Why would dog men want to breed bigger gamedogs, I mean what is the point. They can already be a nightmare at 40 odd pound, why would you want a dog with just as much drive and gameness at over 100lb?

 

The concern at the start of this thread was that those other breeds are increasing gameness. I dont think they do, but i always leave room for second thoughts. If there is more to it, and those dogs one day have the same amount of gameness, they will be in adventage due to their size. So in that case it would be smart to add up size while maintaining gameness, if we want our dogs to remain at the top. But as i said, its a big question if this case is really a case

 

How can they be improving their gameness when their rules are not about gameness? Nobody in the game thinks like that, wanting our dogs to remain at the top? Serious dog folk aren't worried about the what if's of other breeds half the world away. Half those over there can't even afford a car let alone have a big wager on a dog ffs.

 

Easy answer....

Handle a 35lbs screaming, nipping, set me loose mess for 2 hours.... it's a fucking work out. Handle a 50lbs the same you're taking a few days off to recoup.... no one and I mean no one wants to snatch 120lbs up mid action, bring them chest height and run to the corner for 2 hours.... everyone forgets in these conversations the art of conditioning is to bring your charge in a light as possible while still maintaining their peak strength, speed, and skills. Adding more weight to the mix doesn't make sense.

 

Well, this Rocky guy is concerned lol. Or was, he is banned now, dont know why.
Idk what dogmen think and what not, i just know that i cant know whats exactly going on in every part of the world, so i keep doors open for second thoughts.
When it comes to the ruleset in Japan, they have their own rules there yes, but ive heard they have also illegal contests where they go by the cajun rules.

 

I wouldnt want that either, but thats more the handlers problem and not the dogs. The dogs only problem would be a loss of gas, so the question is at what weight do we have the perfect strength to stamina ratio.
Im not saying make them bigger tho, im saying the idea is interesting

 

I'll say it one more time....

The art of conditioning is to bring in your charge at the lightest weight possible while maintaining his peak stamina, strength, and skills. It's also the art of hiding their short comings with their attributes.

The perfect weight to strength to stamina ratio is their peak......

What you're not understanding(like anyone in these conversations) is the reasons the dogs aren't bigger is because of the requirements of the sport and the limitations of the handlers.... "that's the handlers problem not the dogs" yeah that's why a 52lbs pit dog is BIG..... the sport, rules, handlers, and dogs have evolved to be the perfect storm.....

 

I think even in Bulldogs, matches in the 50lbers are not as exc

The dogs are matched at agreed weights, there's no perfect anything, smaller dogs don't generally match in to bigger dogs. The APBT doesn't really have to prove anything, if folk thought they had other breeds that were capable of beating them on a regular basis they'd be putting their money down, they ain't so there aren't.

 

What it is, these people get mesmerized when they see a 150lb monster of a cur throw around a 40lb fighting dog, it's going to happen, it's the laws of physics. But when the going gets tough these dogs quit, often when on top, they aren't even fighting dogs, just dog aggressive giants.

 

If you saying increasing the size (of any type of animal) while (ill say it again) MAINTAINING THE GAMENESS isnt make it a better fighter...then sorry buddy but thats just not how it goes. Maybe you believe that weight and dize doesent matter but they do, thats just a fact