why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

12 guage nice info and its apresiated, but your missing the point!!. TODAY the only pure strain of Bull and Terrier as they ones where called IS the APBT.
like i said forget the names iven the contigned where they live in, look at the breed. the american pit bull terrier had ""varius"" names in the usa in the past from stafford stafforchire terrier to Yanky terrier. TODAY there are no diferend names LEFT given to the purest only sirviving strain of those origenal BULL and TERRIERS. the only name used today IS the APBT. and sins the SBT hase been bred away from its roots we can say and claim that the SBT is a desendanse of the origenal Bull and Terrier known today as the APBT.........Therfor thye am staforchire and the SBT are desendanse of the American pit bull terrier..

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Jacko very nice piece!! i wil ask my son to try and foto copy the wrightings and scetches of the book and il place them here..

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Well this is one of those situations where i'm gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

i read something very similiar to this before Jacko awhile back. i also read somewhere that they did this because the old greyhounds were lacking bone and muscle and the bulldog fixed this. im no genealogist myself, but i also think that our breed has a tad bit of greyhound blood in them. i mean today we have some show bred APBT's that look like whippets and such. i know the dalmatian was used in the white EBT's and they have black spots under their coats to this day. the white APBT's do have those specked dots also under their coats. i havent read all these posts but the APBT is the truest decedent of the bull/terrier cross i feel like Limey says. and the closest to the old bulldogs of the past. i dont really feel that the dogs overall appearances has changed though since the early 1900's in our breed as in other lines of dogs.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

The coloured Bull terrier didn't come into being until after the turn of the century when white bull terrier fancier's who wanted the colouring of the original pit dog, as many white bull terrier's were being born weak, deaf and deformed. So they bred back to the bull terrier's ancestor the pit dog (later known as the SBT) for the colouring.

Look at the photo's of the SBT and APBT in the 30's both breed's were still the same breed untill the Stafford was unfortunatly recognised as a breed by the kc 1935's. And the kc breeder's started to breed for shape instead of peformance. Which is what seperated the two in apperance.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

at the time different variations of bulldog/terrier types already existed before hinks. that is what hinks used to create his dogs (the modern day APBT). the white terrier, dalmatian and already existing colored bull/terrier crosses of the time were used..the white terrier and dalmatian refined the new hinks dog and did away with the coloring. the reason for all of the health issues of the white EBT is because of the dalmatian blood. the dalmatian has deafness all throughout its blood and other problems. White EBT's are man bitters, allergenic, and suffer from deafness just like the dalmatians. your right about the staff mix to get the "colored EBT" of the 1920's or 30's, but i was talking about the original colored bull/terrier dogs (APBT) that made the EBT hinks created. that is the original dog there and i feel that is our APBT of today and the closest descendants of the true BULLDOG of the past.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

I don't understand what your asking here

Theres plenty off bulldogs that look identical to the dogs brought over in the late 1800's

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

here is some texst and ART work out of a book a reprint ted book from 1879 first print 1848 discribing the greyhound X bulldog crosses. starts of with Crosses and cross breeds first page below . NOTE that the first Greyhound X bulldog cross shows a lot of traights witch we can reconize in some modern APBT today this first cross is a brindle one

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Below the pedegree and the FIRST cross can be seen with the names of the Bulldog and its parends, and as you can see this particulair bulldog came brindle and pied in color



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Nothing to ad here!!!.

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Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

the second breeding back into the greyhound blood

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the tird breeding back to the greyhound

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and finaly the fourth breeding back to the greyhound

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

interesting stuff limey. is that book still available in re-print ?
we can be sure that these crosses did take place many years ago, but how long do you think the bulldog blood influenced the greyhounds in question.?
i ask this b/c modern racing greyhounds have not to my limited knowledge been outcrossed for many many years.
forgot to ask what the book is called....lol

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

oops 4th breeding

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Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Jacko its fairly eze and rezeneble priced this book Stonege on the dog. there are many breeds that have bulldog blood in them. i also have a part on the Bull+Terrier to put on its a bit confusing tho, as they discribe the Bull+ Terrier as halve to 3/4 cross(terrier) and back then they alredy had a SHOW verion that sould have been mainly WITE in coloration!!!.
this Bull and terrier should NOT be confused with the BULLTERRIER who was also white. i belive we gave these old time breeders to little creddit in the know how departmend!!. we also know that the bulldog was brindle fawn pied white lots of colorations and as we can see in the greyhound cross brindle and reconizeble traights.
it daunts me that the Bull+ Terrier discribed in this book was alredy a SHOW breed just not the later Bullterrier breed,
so my best gues is that the poor mans working fighting dog where the bulldog+terrier and all the other varius bulldog x other breed crosses that intermikst to become the dog we know today!!. as i always claimed, and ofcours this discribed Buill+terrier in this book was crossed in as wel.. il try to put this info on as wel..

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

PS if they discribed it in this book and took there time to ilustrate it you can be fairly sure it was done more then ones. also some otyher info tells us that the bulldog blood was used in varius breeds to make them beter in the toughf departmend. also modern day lurchers are mainly greyhound x pit bull crosses and you know what the lurvhers back then alredy ecsisted. and greyhounds crosses weher use to hunt wild game!!. the sport as we know it doday was not around back then coursing was the start of it al corect me if im wrong.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

kk nice-one limey.....

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland


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more close up!.
We can clearly see the less to no stop, something we have always said and claimed and bred for in our dogs!!. this dog shows that the modernday pitbull is still the same as yesterday


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here a close up of the head


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here the remaining texst

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Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

considereing the first print being from 1849 we can claim that the Bull and terrier aka theAPBT is mutch older then we think cause in 1849 they discribe the wite bull+ terrier as a dog that is shown at confermation shows and they TALK about the Fighting dog of FORMER days!!!..meaning that the breed was alredy in ecsistanse back in the 1700 , and i have art work from that period as wel

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Are you guys intrested in those old prints as wel..??..

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

always interested in the history of dogs . so yes please limey !!
i got an origional set of hutchinson encyclopedia of the dog 1935. i will checkout the greyhound section. also there is good info on the bulldog and ebt (some old pics)
i will try and get some up...

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Sure as hell Limey!

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

ok here is some more i had to take them out of there frames first..
when i bought these in a mountain vilage in the uk it was labeld as Dog fight at the dinner table!. Funny thing is that the same obviusly rich groop of man apear in the street and it looks like he likes to fight the dogs and bite the nose!!!. the one at the dinner table is a looser ore someting.
i have no ecsplenation what this kind of action prooves ore wat the meaning is.mabey the guy is prooving his own courage.
notish the chaved tail on the dog at the dinner table , this was comonly used upto 1976 in sporting dogs. now im not sure if this is forgotten to pain in bij the people who made these prints ore that it was alredy common in those days to do so, i go for the first one
second picture looks a black and tannish bull + terrier. these two are labeld from the late 1700.

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the necst 2 are from 1820
nr1 was called bager baiting

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nr 2 dogfight in the street

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