When to pass the Crown,...

I keep seeing old/new post alike describing dogs, pedigrees and lineage. My question is, when does a dog stop being a Jeep dog especially if Jeep is like 6 gens removed from the front of the ped??? I'm still seeing people talking about they are breeding Mayfield bred dogs,...GTFOH! How many generations does it take to either enhance or jack up a line?! lol

 

Very good topic

 

love vthis topic homie cause im trying to learn myself homie wht bout 3rd and fourth generation

 

you can enhance or jack up a line with the first generation and it is way harder to fix what some one has jacked up it take around 3-4 generations to fix once some one has f a line up and even then you have to worry about the f ups coming out

 

it usaly comes down to how a person reads a pedigree & inturpits it. they see what they want to see & reference the dogs as they see fit. "enhance or jack up" that's something that is a opinion & will very.

 

Now,..."referencing as they see fit"...is that more of a peddlers trick? ...sort of speak...come "check this out" or "this stud" is 50x (fillinblank) in the first 3 generations. lol or even worse he's 100x(fillinblank) but the blood is 16 gens removed? As far as enchancing or jacking up...I can understand how that can be subjective to the breeder, but if you are not producing the same caliber or better caliber of dogs as the dogs behind your pedigree,...i wouldn't think you have "enhanced" anything...atleast not from that perspective.

 

If the dogs haven't accomplished anything since the dogs in the 6th generation they dont have a choice but to use those 6th gen dogs as a reference.

 

LOL Yes ma'am ... Make each generation count.

 

lol@court. You might have a point there. Never looked at it that way! lmaosmdh

 

Spot on court ! I have heard before, this and this breeding and he was bred mostly out of ... That's the way to go imo.

 

Or at least something not widely known to have done something...if Smith's Fido has won 7 unreported, you won't get much attention if you are raising "Fido dogs", but if Fido has Jeep, Bolio, or whover a ways back, people immediately identify, even if it has been too long or too outcrossed to really be considered as such.

 

When someone purchases dogs for the purpose of breeding they will (in most cases) purchace dogs that are bred similiar with a similiar base or foundation. There are also those who will purchase 2 different foundation lines with the want to cross and then evaluate said cross. I think that at this point of breeding, the dogs should carry the name of the original foundation ie. Jeep dogs, or in the event of a cross Jeep/Redboy dogs. Now if the new breeder has continued success with his line bred or family bred Jeep dogs and does not make any crosses it should take 4 or 5 generations of breeding (with success) before the name should change ie. Chans Jeep dogs (a solid Jeep line). If the crossed dogs are successful and the line continues to produce a good rep of the line ie. Jeep (who is a cross of Colby and Dibo family primarily) that is when the name should change to reflect the cross is a working bloodline and has retained its prepotency to produce well rounded gamedogs.

Since you mentioned Mayfield ill expand on it a little. Keystone dogs are considered "Pure Mayfield dogs" as they have been preserved as a family and built off of the foundation that Don Mayfield provided. Because of the influence brought to the Mayfield bred dogs by Keystone the name has now changed to reflect the new breeders influence hence "Keystone" is how people refer to them, (although people still use Dons name to discredit them based on their opinion of Don, go figure)

Another thing you may want to take into consideration the intentions of the breeder, is the breeder breeding to sell dogs and if so can the breeder drop a famous dogs name to increase the amount that the dog can be sold for? I like to refer to this type of breeder as a coat tail rider, he/she will ride that famous name as long as they can and advertise with things like "The best jeep dogs avaliable today" to attract newbies to the dogs and make more money from the sales. This type of breeder will often switch lines when the trends change and find a new coat tail to ride.

If a breeder is breeding with the intentions of creating a yard for personal use the names of the foundation lines are rarely used as this type of breeder is branching away from running a specific line and dabbling in the creation of a new line. I beleive that this is the hardest way to find success in these dogs but if done right can produce some of the best quality dogs and clean up the gene pools of the lines used. It requires far more attention to detail and much more ruthless culling but in time can stand on its own as well as become a valuable cross to the original lines that produced it.

NGK

 

I am glad someone has brought this up. I have been thinking about this for years now. Many of the dogs that people consider that there dog is based off of are for the most part 40+ year old dogs. Example; Eli, Eli jr, Jeep, Red boy, Jocko, ect.
These past great dogs have possibly hundreds of off shoots or branches. But yet many of us still refer to our dogs as based off them. Nobody refers to their dog as a "Dibo" dog or "Centipede" dog or what ever anymore. Why? They are to far back! When will the RB's, RBJ's, or Eli's be surpassed by more modern offspring? Now I know you can say your dog is off more modern dog's. But when people look at the peds, many will still identify the linage of the dog from those listed above. When someone say's they have a dog based off of a dog that is 40+ years ago, it means absolutely nothing to me. IMO, you should have something within the first two generations.
But maybe I just don't understand how it works. Hopefully one of you who are much wiser than me regarding these bull dogs can clear it up.

 

NGK; I did not see your post before I submitted mine. That was very helpful.

 

I understand what your are saying NGK, but once again...when does "Jeep" stop being known as "Jeep". You gave the example "Chan's Jeep" but once again...we still have the tag line "jeep". lol Like someone stated...a lot of these well known hounds are over four decades old. Surely their have been some notable hounds down the pike who deserve just as much credit or should I say notoriety as Jeep. The same with Mayday, rbj,...so on and so forth. So before jeep...were hounds called Bullyson bred hounds prior to? And if so...it only took one generation before "Jeep" took the title as far as name recognition.
And to elude to something else you said...if said line is successful for 4 to 5 generations....then the name changes...sort of speak...yet someone else stated that a line could go to ish after one generation of bad breeding. lol I guess my question is...why so long in obtaining a new standard...I'm sure this is all subjective...just curious. A lot of people I ask this question to say 2 or 3 revolutions. But thanks for your input so far. very insightful!

 

NGK very well put to be honest you sumed it all up for the most part!! Thanks for your info on the subject

 

Great post!!!! NGK

 

real good posting!!! NKG!

 

That's the way I see it to BB...it's jeep blood out their that ppl don't call jeep...u got tab, garrett's little Redboy, Floyd, tramp..jeep is the foundation of the blood which means he started it all!...just like Eli sired Eli Jr, bullyson but Eli is the foundation so u can call them Eli dogs...Eli Jr sired art, hurt, Stomper Jr, Eli III, nighttrain and many others but Eli Jr is the foundation of it....if I breed a art dog with a hurt/nighttrain dog it is a Eli Jr dog even thou those dogs have their own line...just preference that's all!!...

 

There are direct sons of Jeep who have lines named after them a good example would be Tab, I beleive he is also a great example of an outcross dog that carried his sires prepotency through to his offspring. When Tab was bred back to the Jeep side of his family he produced K.A., K.A. was out of Irene who was a double bred Jeep dog who also shows Jeeps mother Honeybunch 3x in her ped up close. People tend to call offspring down from Tab "Tab Dogs" even when bred back to heavy jeep dogs, I think its because he has solidified his reputation as a producer of game match quality animals, a trait he no doubt inherited from his father as well as from his granddam and gandsire.

The point im trying to make is this, if a dog shows to be the best producer of his/her line then the majority of people will refer to the offspring and their offspring as________ dogs until another more modern dog arises with a prepotency to produce as good or better than said dog. Their are alot of lines like this, 6 Bits dogs are Boze dogs, when Clemmons mixed some Zebo and Eli in with the Boze blood they became Clemmons bred dogs from _____________ foundation. In this case the name comes from the breeder as he did not have just 1 foundation, he used different foundations to obtain a working standard and moved on from there.

I could show example after example but I think it comes down to how people read a ped and their own perception of the many lines out there. A Jeep fan is more likely to call a scatterbred dog scatterbred and a linebred dog linebred, a rookie may see jeep twice in 6 generations of a scatterbred dog and call this dog a Jeep dog.

I think a dog must prove himself in both performance and production to earn the right to be the figure head of a line of dogs and a breeder must be succesful enough with his crosses for people to refer to those crosses as ___________ dogs.

NGK