When is a dog considered a good producer?

hi limey, with nelis and tug breeding, were the puppies acting 50 /50, some like dad and some like mother or did they act like the mother, and how bout the coat, were they all black if not what was the percentage.. when u compare the 2 who produced himself more.. especially when they were bred together.

 

The Englishman was pretty green if he bought dogs and matched them because of a ped!!...I wonder wat school did he's dogs go through!!..I don't care who u are, if u do that u are setting urself up for failure!..breeding and performance dogs are different!!..if u don't kno how to breed then u will always have average or below average stock!!...I remember tuggie said bred that dog wit this dog and u will get wat u need!!...and he was dead on point!!!...some ppl have a eye for breeding and some don't!..dome ppl are better with performance animals and have kno clue about breeding!!...if it was that easy everybody and they momma would have rom and grch dogs on the yard!!...u tell all these myths of breeding and do everything right and still get ate the fukk up in the pit!..u kno why?...cause u might be going against a better dogman then urself!!....everybody has took a "L" in this game last time I checked!...it's ppl that can breed good dogs right now by just looking at them, it's ppl breeding good dogs because the sire/dam were great performers, it's ppl breeding good dogs from 2 cold dogs, it's ppl breeding good dogs from curs!!...it's no exact way to breed, just stay tru to ur beliefs, cull hard and u will be successful in the long run!!...u do not have to outcross to get good dogs!!!...u can breed within the family and get good dogs!..it's plenty of dogs that are rom but are not recognize!!...u don't have to be rom to be a good producer, it's plenty of them out there that u won't hear about!!..this one old cat down here in the south told me, give me two bulldogs from any line and in ten years I'll have more bulldogs better than the two I had at first!!..lol...and he ain't fukkin lying!!...and he doesn't breed for producers cause if u ain't working he's culling it and he produces monster when he breed!...bulldog to bulldog will = to bulldog 7 out of 10 times!!...it ain't a muthafukka on this board that will tell u he has garbage dogs on his yard!!..lol...they will say they are feeding bulldogs!!

 

Correction: the Englishman isn't green but the fella who bought the stacked ped is green!!

 

whe always had 75% black stuf and 25% of the red tug side.
being it like a mixsture of the 2 but mainly red.
The red dogs we used to call Fox dogs as they apeard to have a trowback to curtis fox jr and petronelies fox. tug was bij no means a CH Snubby trowback.
the black dogs where predominand Nelis ore CH Spike dogs. sins Tug was bred in this famely did loose SOME mouth and a little bit of strenght . but gained so mutch more stamina and smarts along with it creating a alround beter animal.
so tugs influens was considering color 25% presend and defenatly a good 40% in the brain /stamina departmend.,
Bij the way i agree and suport NGK in most wat he sais. in this topic..
sins our bloodline was at first pure alligator with a spark of eli. and later switchst to a cross famely as a foundation
i can say that in our case the click was there in sutch a way that the first generation croses alredy lookt like Pure bred selected animals!! the hybrid viger lasted for at least 20 years then we slowly started to notish some undisireble traights sirfishing witch was the triger to start looking for a out cross. this started in 2000. sins then we used 4 diferned out croses. and are slowly purefying stuf up again. to get back to the origenal cross dogs from Nelis x Tug spike x tug. its a long but stedy road..
you have to make it a lives work and be a all round dogman in doing so. if you are a sportif guy only dont bother!!!!.

 

I got a question for the board!!...u got a stud/brood bitch dog and u breed him/her to 7 bitches/males and out of those 7 bitches/males u get a grch, 4ch's and numerous 1 and 2 time winners, is he/she considered to be a good producer??

 

ofcours he ore she is, but you wil not know if he is a GREAT producer. that wil show generations douwn the line..

 

I was at a dog show some years back, I seen this old beat up crooked legged dog in the show ring. I pointed him out & the "ol timer" beside me said "you should breed to that dog if you ever get a chance" I told him "I don't even know how that dog is bred." The old Georgia dogman looked at me in my eyes with a serious cold look and said "boy, it don't matter you could breed Jay Jay to that fence pole your leaning against and get good bulldogs!" He wasn't lying that dog produced out of every litter he sired to a variety of off the wall bred bitches. The dog himself had a pedigree most wouldnt care for because it wasnt what was popular with all the cool people...lol. But he was from solid dogs and he threw the same no matter what & all on just a handfull of breedings. Thats when you can call a dog a good producer. High percentages with strong traits that carry on no matter what they are bred to.

 

One major point is percentages. Dogs like Gr.Ch. Art who was only bred a handfull of times produced lots of winners & producers out of a few breedings. Then you have dogs like Jeep & Mayday who are bred 1,000,000 times and still have semen stored to do more breedings. They get all the credit as the best producers of all times. Hell if I bred my wifes yorkie 1,000,000 Id probably get a big number of winners, I would hope! Someone who is mathamatically inclined should take the number of good dogs compared to the number of dogs produced just to get a rough figure & bring the stats to the light. I know there is no way to get accurate numbers & one could only imagine how many dogs are not listed because they didnt make the grade. But it would be interesting to see even with just the dogs that are listed...

 

@ Crushbones. I know all the titles like GrCh & Ch mean alot to some people. But as everyone knows any kind of title means very little. Ive seen dogs who were monsters but the stars just never lined up right for them to get 3 wins. But they could have easily made Ch. Then I have seen some Chs who I would be embarassed to call Chs. Some people dodge & pick their battles. I had a lady tell me many moons ago that "when times get hard & I dont have no money to pay the bills, I call Bobby Hall & hook into him" LOL.....

 

So how about you take a great producer and put the pups into the general publics hands?
So how about you take a great producer and put the pups into ONLY great dog men hands?
So how about you take a good producer and put the pups into the general publics hands?
So how about you take a good producer and put the pups into only great dog men hands?

I have seen these same questions so many times over the years its boring. Its a combo of the Man and his bulldog that makes a bulldog. A dog man who knows his stock and checks it properly then carefully places it in the proper hands has a better chance at higher averages. A dog man following this criteria does not breed for the masses (general public). Any excess will be placed properly. ( the way it should be )



At the end of the day are you going to listen to things said, or are you going to put in the work. Wor

 

same questions, but the answer were beautiful, when i first read the thead, i was like uh another when is a dog producer thread.. but thn later on i loved the posts.. first started with the post by triplej, and than limey joined and the party started lol

and i been a member since 2007, so seen it all in this forum lol

 

the days when we had the pit section LMAO

 

Its hard to say because everyones definition of 'good' will never see eye to eye.

I'm with 'old goat' though. Starting with a good bitch is a deff. cornerstone. I'm a firm believer she contributes just a little bit more to the offspring.

 

Their were quite a few people that bought into these scatterbred battle curs, the englishman would attend each outing for the 1st while but after he saw his foundation walls crumbling down he became more and more scarce. Those who had bought into his scheem began testing his understanding harder and harder until he packed it in and went back to england. I heard he moved back this way about 5-7 years ago and was trolling around looking for dogs, lol.

Im of the opinion that the englishman is also a greenhorn, he had no true understanding of his bloodlines and no real gift for breeding, hell he had no damn luck either.

NGK