What's The Best Modern Day Eli Line?

Bounty your spot on!!!. Its not just the coat color. ore the deep red eye rings umongst the Eli and Alligator dogs. its about getting as many traights you can get find breed into your dogs to get ore stay as close to that ""OUSTANDING"" dog your famelie ore bloodline is based on. why whould we inbreed ore line breed on these dogs in the first place!!. not just performance as MANY performance dogs are in these pedigrees.
we line breed and inbreed to stay CLOSE. with that type of breeding you take al the other traights/tools if you like that make up that foundation dog.. Look at Boudraux and Clemmonds. there ELI based dogs are mostly""Black"" Red eyes/ Black palate / strong build...
Again useing the nigerino/Art bloodline as a aczample, i dont consider grch art ore the nigerino bloodline Eli dogs at al..

 

Same Here Naus Lol

 

Its a known fact that J. Clemmons bred his dogs to carry as manny Bullyson traits as possable and the more of a Bullyson clone both physicly and mentaly a stud was the more high regard the old man held for said stud.

 

dammit, sure enough limey is right,... both my dogs have it... not full color, spotted though....

 

my dog also has it although it is lighter in color.

going along with what limey posted about selection based on physical traits. I remember reading that clemmons said when you breed these dogs good and tight and you get a red one keep it because you will sure need it to breed back to your black stock.
I wonder if this is because even though on paper there bred the same the red color is an indication the dog is more genetically diverse than the black stock or a throwback to something earlier on the ped?

 

Throwback to an ancestor, is it a COMPLETE different genetic make up? Who knows but id try it for an "in family" outcross....

 

What Clemmonds and boudraux did is aczackly what we used to do. Our alligator/eli famely. was crossed out with Tug rom who was up close carvers pistol miss spike blood tru Petronellies Fox jr bred to Uptouwns ch snubby(tombstone red baby). who had little to no influense in the gene pool.. anyway http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=2066
Fox jr was also up close to Claytons Sugar litter sister to these dogs http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=siblings&dog_id=85 chek Java and sugars ofspring and who they where bred to!!. In our case we ended up with 75% of the black stuf and 25% of the red stuf trowbacks. The Java and Sugar blood was very predominand in the chinaman and Nigerino bloodlines and plaied a major rolle in the outcome of both bloodlines. . where the nigerino dogs tented to go more to the Java side when bred to Eli jr.
chinaman like ch Hurt(arts brother) where more Eli jr trowbakcs.. Hensh we crossed out with the deep red nigerino blood back in 2000.
due to us being limited in yard space purety level reachst a al time high . in where we where forced to cross out. But befor those crosses. the Fox dogs as we called the red dogs. where more ez to use when inbreeding. due to there trowback to that pistol blood. Both Clemmonds and Boudraux. did the same thing with there Red dogs.

Now i dont whant to go off topic. but im a firm beliver that the black stuff is NOT as mutch Dibo based blood as what we have made belive over the last couple of decades... The red stuf is tho..

 

Thats assuming that along with the color gene, comes the rest of the genes from dibo.......... Which i dont know if it works like that......the color may be from dibo, his wind may come from his black momma and his ability may come from great grandma....

I cant really justify assuming that all genes are comming from one place....

 

Definitely can't go wrong with this
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [449151] :: MARKY'S DAKOTA

 

My frind Asuming becomes a reality as long as you keep on line and inbreeding these dogs and select on the traights that make up that outstanding dog you breed on.

 

i hear ya, but that only becomes possible when you breed the family for several generations and you can pinpoint where the traits are comming from.

 

Now i dont whant to go off topic. but im a firm beliver that the black stuff is NOT as mutch Dibo based blood as what we have made belive over the last couple of decades... The red stuf is tho..[/QUOTE]

are you saying that you believe its coming through the henry dogs like Mayfield stated?

also using this model say your line breeding (two black dogs) and the resulting litters produces a throw back red dog that dog would be a candidate to inbreed tighter on (like son back to mother)

 

Lowerys wife thought a black palate was the sign of a good dog. Worked out well for her lol

 

She did breed some good dogs and keep the yard going while B was away but I think having good dogs may have had something todo with it. Not necessarily their palates lol.

 

yes your right,But if your lucky enoughf like we onces where and have a couple of predominant super producers who put there stamp on everyting they where bred to , then its a lot more ez. starting of with some awful tight bred dogs that alredy have these traights and start line breeding them , and they wil do it for you.
I must say that we whent very deep in the mater. in such a way that we iven tried to get as much info on particulair dogs from books and talking to there breeders and owners who fooled around with sirtin individuals. To find out as mutch as posible about these dogs. NOT just there performance quality.
One aczample was The CH Candy bitch we had aka Hammonds Black angle.
She was out of hammonds Parksom rom. and Roger Elder Little Eve. both her parends where defenatly NOT alligator type of dogs. But Candy was and she had a striking resamble on plumbers ch Alligators sister Terry florry,s Susan Renee. she was nearly a clone looking at the pictures. Her Brother Red hulk was like hise sire and dame of a random trowback.
We found out that susan renee was a very nice loving bitch towards peope and was used as a catsh dog as wel. but when she got older she had to be retired as she became overly agressif. she was also a very hard mouthed dog. al these and many other traights and mental behavier was inherented bij the candy bitch From Susan Renee . She was bred twice prior befor we got her and her ofspring was random!!!!!.
realizing where her trowback came from we bred her to 2 of >>our way <<selected tightbred alligator bully typ dogs . resulting in 21 pups 17 where shown and made the grade. . producing a couple of ch dogs along the way. Now you might ecspect that due to Candy,s random non selected breeding involving dogs of quality but of varius types coloration ecetera she douwn the line would produce the same. Because of her wide open gene pool.
But she didnt!!. We where able to lock on Her bloodline Due to these males that where used.They produced very uniform type dogs, sure there where some little diferences inbetween them, but al shared a lot of the same traights. and where al black . and that bloodline is stil around, carying lots of alligator Bully in the background today... Today we have dogs that have there trowback to our males and there awnsesters and there are dogs that take of afther the Candy bitch. and al still cary alot of the same traights.
We have reduced Genetic variation in such a way that its ez to lock on what we are looking for ore whant to see in the dog we breed .

 

are you saying that you believe its coming through the henry dogs like Mayfield stated?

also using this model say your line breeding (two black dogs) and the resulting litters produces a throw back red dog that dog would be a candidate to inbreed tighter on (like son back to mother)[/QUOTE]
No and yes. as the Henry Dibo Teory came from us. Mayfield agreed with it!!... as it is it was is a teory. but many things are at least OD and point in that direction. But the same amound of points prove its not the case. but im a beliver when you put the puzzle together. Some very sucsesfull old timers Know/Knew about it i gues..

 

that's some good detective-work/ research there Limey, and it paid off. Good work!

 

Limey said :Again useing the nigerino/Art bloodline as a aczample, i dont consider grch art ore the nigerino bloodline Eli dogs at al..


Can you elaborate. Isn't eli an inbred dibo dog? Which is an inbred gimp dog? According to your theory, if I understand it correctly, Boudreaux should not have picked eli jr or his sire......

 

Wel i realy dont whant to go there, but no Eli to me and a couple of other dogman is a henry dog. Bred to A dibo bitch. Known to some of us as Henry Dibo cross. We belive Earl Tudor had 2 famelies of dogs regesterd under 1 name called the Dibo famely. If you chek out the Eli dogs pedigree it thussend make sense, Same with Tudors/mayfield Nig.er ecetera. Scotty Nelson who stayd at my mentors house for 3 months in the previus century Told him that earl Tudor imported dogs from England till the eury 1950,s!!!... go figure...

 

Funny thing that look.....friend of mine has a staff,if ya saw him solid black ...red eye's...ya can guess the things that were going thru my head..he might be still alive, i'll try get a photo of him.......