What makes you think.........

I am very well aware of the standard in APBTs and I'm not here say my dogs are better than anybody elses in way, shape or form because that's just based off of personal opinion. How in the hell can we sit here and say that smaller APBTs' are more agile, quicker, long winded and energetic than the ones on the larger end of the scale. It scrapes my skin when I hear a dog can't be as athletic as Joe Blows dog because Joe Blows dog is smaller in weight. I have a male in the 60lb range and he works every other day and is lean as an APBT can get. He's got the stamina and drive to run 50 suicides on a football field. I'll tell you one advantage I like about him. His back end is smaller and his front is large and he knows how to powerdrive with his back legs to get full force of his frontend.

Remember that this is my opinion and what I say hasn't been proven and if it ever was it would be a match to go down into history. Like I've stated this is all from my personal point of view. Take two dogs with the same rank but different weight classes and power will out measure quickness.

 

Power will only outmeasure quickness IF the powerful dog can pin the quick one!

(BTW don't think I have a prejudice against big dogs - I once had an 83 lb male & 65 lb female who were hell on paws!)

 

That's why I say to take two dogs with the same ranking.

 

Well, I have a 80 lb'er (Zues and a 58 lb'er (Rocky) and let me tell ya Zues wouldn't stand a chance, Rocky can run circles around him..
However if Zues was to get a hold of him that would be a different story!!!
That "Extra" 20 lbs or so would be to his advantage...
Disclaimer: Hypothetically speaking!! I don't let mine fight...

 

I didn't say they weren't of the same ranking. It could be two 80 lb'ers going toe to toe. That wouldn't change the fact that all the power in the world is worth nil if you're pushing against dead air. Gotta catch 'em first!

 

Come on now, you're missing the point. You got two dogs who probably have never been introduced to a keep or any form of strict conditioning to prepare for an extreme sport that last a good while and neither of the dogs are probably not even ranked within the [].

I'm asking a hypothetical question to get a clear understanding of what people think two dogs ranked the same within the [] with different weigth classes would have as an outcome.

 

If he can't catch'em, then the other dog aint close enough to be caught or engage in the event at all.


EDIT: and believe me, an APBT in the 60lb range is far from being slow.

 

Mybad!! What exactly do you mean by ranked the same??
Sorry, still learning..

 

If they both had the same amount of experience, as if both had an equal amount of wins and were both in tip-top shape.

 

Well, I'm no expert in any way but it seem to me like I said earlier that the extra weight could be used to their advantage...I'm just guessing though...

 

I have owned both. When I got started I owned an 83 lb male, a 65 lb male & two 65 lb females. As I grew in the breed, I became interested in standard game dogs & found out dogs 40 lbs & under could do anything a big dog could do, but they ate less, pooped less & were easier to care for.

Sure, my big dogs were powerhouses, but their wind usually wasn't as good, they usually weren't as agile & their atheticism usually wasn't as good.

But to answer the OP's question, if 2 dogs of equal measure were to meet but one ws powerful & one was quick, I'd have to say the quicker dog would be the victor. I say this as I have seen/heard of quick dogs running a powerful dog into the ground by letting him run out of gas then going in for the kill. This has happened countless upon countless times when quickness meets power.

BUT ... that quick dog had better be careful, b/c I have also seen quick dogs not be quick enough & get caught in the crushing grip of a powerful dog. If that happens then they'll be in a bad way until they get loose.

 

I'm still not seeing how you get that answer if they are both is the best shape. It makes no physical sense. When both dogs are tired then they are both tired, after that it's all about drive and who has the most to finish. This is assuming they are both considered "game".

Yaeh but how many people actually match smaller dogs to bigger dogs for a legitimate match?

That sounds like a bunch of people just seeing what their dog can do.

 

In my opinion its not about one being better then the otehr....its about the physical capability of the dog. My family uses pit bulls for boar hunting and the larger ones (genreally speaking, not in every case) are not physically capable for a hunt because of......


-agility- their bulk does not allow for moving as fast, getting out of the way of a tusk or even launching itself in the air to get out of the way
-soft palletes- a lot of overgorwn bullies are born with this condition which is very common in their cousin's the english bulldog which does not allwo for them to breath easily when under extreme physical exhaution, they sweat adn cool off through their nose
-barrel chests/respiratory problems- the extreme barrel chests are wider then they are deep which really weigh them down, they are so front heavy and it leaves them vulnerable to respiratory issues and infections
-bowed elbows- Upright or loaded shoulders; elbows turned outward or tied-in; down at the pasterns; front legs bowed; wrists knuckled over; toeing in or out is more common in the larger pits, its just not proportionate or safe, haha
-stamina- a lot of these dogs do great in weight pull but lack actual stamina. Its a common trend to work them on a spring pole which helps build muscle but not stamina

 

Like the one guy said IF the fatty can catch the smaller one. Rory plays with a big pit bull adn he couldnt catch her if his life depended on it, he cant keep up with her and has to take many rest breaks. When we take them swimming its so sad, he wants to play all day and the owner actually has to pull him out of the water and force him to take a break, he over heats himself.

 

They both might be in the best shape they can be, but one dog's best shape might not be as best as the other's best shape. For example, if I am in my best shape & you are in your best shape you probably will still be able to out run me.

I didn't think we were talking about drive, finish or gameness? I thought the question was about quickness & power. And a quicker dog - even when tired can outmanuver a powerful dog.

No one said anything about matching dogs of different weights.

Yup.

 

Sorry, the dogs you're describing sound like poorly bred dogs and/or not up to par on conditioning. I'm talking about APBTs who have been proven and ranked the same within the [] with high levels of conditioning.

 

BTW: this is hypothetical but could pose some hard truth if it ever happened

 

Ok I did say "generally speaking"......and where I'm from a majority of the oversized bullies are poorly bred so it does make sense. I'm not attacking your dog personally. You asked for opinions and from a hunting stand point that is my opinion. Sure they may not all be suseptable to those health issues but we wont take the risk and put money into them when our life relies on them in the field.

 

Scratchy, it's probably best not to argue points which you don't know about. The best style of dog, is one who can keep the other out while inflicting damage of his own. As ABK said,"it doesn't matter how powerful you are if your pushing dead air". For a non-dogfighting analogy, have you ever wrestled? The strongest man isn't the one who wins most of the time, if competing against a more agile opponent who knows how to use angles. Using angles is nothing more then being smart and quick enough to avoid a lateral power struggle. It's no secret, and it's the reason I was wrestling the heavyweight division when I was outweighed by 50+ pounds every match. There are some very agile big guys, and big dogs. But to compare a agile heavyweight (catchweight) to a agile 30 lb. dog, is two totally diffrent things. As it should be, they aren't matched into eachother for a reason! The fighting style I refer to is generally refered to as a "slick head dog". It is entirely possile to inflict damage while taking virtually none, just as well as it is possible to control the pace of the fight. Couple that with the other dog "carrying" the head dog around (Riding the head, with both front legs "tucked") and pushing to catch up to him, he's going to be very frustrated he can't get a hold, and very tired, very soon.

 

So what are your stnadards for bred well with the exceeding weiht of the breed standard?

From a breeding stand point do you support the testing of.....

Aortic stenosis/sub-aortic stenosis
OFA Hips
OFA Thyroid
Corneal dystrophy
Holter Monitor:
OFA Heart
CERF

because any less of htese tests when breeding IS poor breeding. Breeding for color and size is NOT a reason to breed