Waaazzzuupp!!

Your right. I shouldn't say that around her second heat is when I plan breeding, but I just say that in terms of when or if someone decides to breed a female at least wait until their second heat. Cause we all know a female can breed at 10 mnths. if you let her around a stud during that first heat.

But yea peds aside, I'm more focused on working with my male on this forum. I wish I never even mentioned possibly breeding him with my young female later on at all, but I did. So yea, I appreciate the input on the idea and all, and hopefully I won't be looked at differently on the forum! So ya'll be easy and take care.

 

On a side note, I have had some(one in particular) with the blue dogs from Destiny that were DG. Bitch's name was "Proud Mary", if you know their dogs. Seemed that the program was on the downfall ot that time. I know nothing of what they are doing now, it has been...maybe 9 years since my last encounter with them, and the dog she sold me was a few years old and had heartworms, The dogs behind it, if memory serves me correctly, were from Volt's Pit Stop, and those were some nice dogs also. They didnt hunt them, but several that came out of there were hunted by others.
But to say they were only Pets is not true.

ON THREAD:

First off, do not get mentored by anyone you been talkin with! They got you in the shape your in. On this forum, people are just very straight forward, but you never have to wonder how they are thinking, and that is something that I appriciate. Too many folks beat around the bush. As to how you have been spoken to, go read some other threads and you'll see you have been handled with kids gloves. A good example is Esse. Look up the threads he has posted, and go to about the first one, and read it, but he took it, learned here, and now he is not the same. He has educated himself, and is a prime example of what will happen if a man(or woman) humbles themselves, becomes teachable, and learns. You also should go and do a search on here for genetics, then you'll see just how foolish it is to quote the peds you are talking about, unless all you want to be is a byb, which you said you dont.
IMO, scatterbreeding is more dangerous than inbreeding, and must be handled with an even stricter cull program!! For several generations. And that is how your dogs are bred. And you will end up scattering even more, and no telling which bad traits will be spread.

But if you are planning on going on with your regularly scheduled plans of hookin them 2 together, and dont want to change, listen now,...LEAVE THIS FORUM NOW! Because if you continue to stay here and read, you will end up learning, and you will end up seeing that you shelled out some cash on something that you could have used the same amount of cash to get something way better, and you will begin to not only care about the dogs as a breed, but begin to see how you can be a part of responsible ownership, by not breeding subpar animals.

As to the game thing, in your own quote "to develop traits of eagerness despite substantive injury." it is wsaying that the dog must be put behind to be tested for game, which pulling and hangtime cannot happen. Even monster match dogs of the past, winning, some were not able to be tested, as they were never put behind. When the dog is put behind and losing, and still thinks it is winning, pushing harder, that is game. And I dont mean put behind by no confirmation points either. That is illegal now, and anyone who does test there dogs with other dogs would not dare admit to it, as there are cops and AR folks who troll these types of boards. I certainly dont test mine, that is for sure.

So take whatever is said, not as a slam to you as a person, but as a slam against the action/actions that are either in motion, or in your mind to do. Listen to what is said, and either recieve it, or reject it.

To your original question, I think it would be a mistake to hook those two dogs together.

 

i wouldnt even bother breeding if i was you..... there really is no point and most of the time people are all in it for the money.

i would spay/neuter the 2 you have or just dont breed them. study like heck and maybe start out with some good dogs.

probibly most of us have started out with petbulls but as you learn you will see what this breed stands for and what it should sorta look like... gotti and greyline and whatever are not at all APBT's they are nothing but overdone staffies and they have zero to no endurance.
lots of showbreds dont have good endurance (UKC)....

endurance and athletism should be a big factor in a APBT... along with somthing else that everyone else has gone over.

 

Thanks for the info. and a few others who PMed with their thoughts.

Yea I'm still trying to research on some of DP's older pitbulls with the Gator Dundee to Corbett's Hagbar the Horrible(any input on these greatly appreciated). But yea as I'm looking deeper into these older posts I'm seeing anyone that mentions any kind of bully style gets it bad. I stand firmly on my boy being a strong game line, even if Clemmons' Big Easy was said to be shootin ice, and even tho he has a shot of Camelot on bottom. He's definately not a 'bully' style. Then again, my girl might turn out to have more of that look even though she is 25% Holland's. So maybe pairing these two really won't work, but that's my fault. I saw similar Clemmons' names and was wanting to go with that. But don't get me wrong I respect the Watchdog and Winegarner's original breeders.

And as far as calling my dog pure 'game' you all are right in that aspect no I can't say he is game ready as I've never tried nor plan on scratching him. I'm sure it's in him but I don't want to see it anyway. But he definately has a strong drive and stamina and an eagerness to keep going under any conditions.

Here's a picture of him atm.

 

IMO, you should work both your dogs, and see where you're at in 3-4 years. Give them time to grow up, train them in the meantime to do whatever sports you're interested in. One of the most interesting perspectives that I ever heard basically went something like "take your first show dog, show it to its championship, then spay it." Basically, use these dogs you have now to give you a taste of what its like showing/working dogs (if you're not familiar with that already). Use that time out at shows to talk to people and learn as much as you can. Then later, when you've spent some years soaking up information and feel really confident that you know what's up, then worry about starting your program. You may decide that those are not the dogs you want to breed, and end up altering them both and letting them live out their lives as your pets.

Just a humble viewpoint from someone who is not yet to the point of being comfortable or experienced enough to breed dogs. Welcome to the forum.

 

buwah buwah buwah!!!! be positive man. see through the negativity!

 

Just hang in there. Learn about the breed from those of use that are in the know. I am sorry that you have the feeling you must defend your bully dogs. However the truth is you don't have APBT but you do have a bully breed. Sorry that it is offensive to you but you sit back and learn and soon you will see why and what the jumping down your throat was really about. It isn't a personal attack on you as a person trust me. it is however against those that breed the lines you possess and unfortunatly they are not pure.

 

6 mths is a little early to be training for weight pull, and I hope to god you aren't letting him jump off the ground for that hanging rope. You should atleast wait until he is over a year old before you start training for weight pull, but then again if they'll be breeding by that age, what's the point of working them

 

purplepig - I think you misunderstood me. I said her blues were petbulls only. By that I meant DP wasn't out there testing or matching her blues. What others did w/ them, that I do not know.

And I sure hate that she sold you a dog w/ HW. I had nothing but good excperinces w/ DP. But then again I never bought anything from her, but knew her only as a friend.

So far as I know she dropped all or almost all of the blue stuff & runs gamebred lines now.

 

I must be looking at the wrong ped where's the heavy "clemmons" in the 3/4 gen of the maximus ped? You have big easy as a great grandsire on the dams side. That give you a far removed shot of tobyxsixbits. I woulndn't say that's heavy by any means. What exactly are you looking for out of a breeding like that? The way that dog is bred it seems there no direction, rhyme or reason to it. If you are looking for a "clemmons" dog start off with a pup that's been bred the way mr C breed his dogs there are good breeders out there with dogs that came from his yard when he retired and those that got pups directly off him. The best clemmons dogs are the sixbits maverick crosses IMO.

 

I think you are looking at the right ped. The Dunns/ DP stuff doesn't have any Clemmons in it that I know of & I do not think the Freeman stuff does either, save for Easy.

Maybe he is getting the heavy Clemmons idea from all the Clemmons behind Easy??? But even still, based on the ped he posted that would only make Maximus 1/8th Clemmons at best.

Does anyone have any online peds for these dogs??? :confused:

 

"Even monster match dogs of the past, winning, some were not able to be tested, as they were never put behind. When the dog is put behind and losing, and still thinks it is winning, pushing harder, that is game. And I dont mean put behind by no confirmation points either."

Now, I don't want to stary another fire, I just want to see if my logic is correct. Don't flame me too bad, I just wanted to see if anyone else sees it like I do.

(And I'm not saying anything in particular about this dog, it just fits the statement above)

According to ''historical' things I've read, Garner's Chinaman basically destroyed most things he went into. The account I read about when he was tested said it was done so after being in a car in the heat for x amount of hours or whatever else had gone on prior to the dogs meeting. It said he came out on top. And in most of his matches, they didn't seem to last long and he *always* dominated (again, according to what I've read, anyone please feel free to correct me if I am misinformed).

So, according to what was said above (and purplepig, this is not a poke at your or anything of the like, I find your posts very informative and valuable) Chinaman wouldn't be game? [Notice the question mark, I'm trying to learn, not make statements]

Anyways,

Lethalpits, you look like ou have some nice pets and I think you'll be happy with them. Just get a little calloused and you'll find what most folks on here have to say is worth taking the time to read.

Have a good one.

 

perhaps I was a little too harsh, guess sometimes it just gets a little tiring seeing the same type of post get remade so often

 

your efforts are NOT a lost cause. you've changed many people's ideas and conceptions including mine. i had the luxury of learning without talking for a while and not making an ass of myself too much. but this site changed my entire view of how i view game dogs and the breed's history as a whole. you guys are doing good by a little tough love. shiet. if the people you give tough love to can't handle it, they won't be able to handle a true game dog anyway. peace and hairgrease.

 

yep, I have learned a lot since coming here and still have a TON more to learn.. The trick is learning what the apbt "IS" and not what a lot of misinformed people "Think it is" or should be.

I should have my pup soon and am glad that things worked out like they did , I think it has a lot to do with fate etc!

 

Man. Yea, his Big Easy line branches off to Clemmons' Eli's Shadow and Clemmons' Yo Yo, which goes to Nig Toby and Boud Rose 2, and Six Bits and Patterson's Rat which goes back into 6th. ALSO on TOP SIDE Woodle's Copperhead is the son of Fox's Goldie which is the daughter of again Clemmons' Nig Toby. With the addition of a Colby line and a Steve's Ch. Bullsht line.

I don't know. He has many great names from 2-6 as far as game line goes.

And he just happens to have a single line of Camelot in him from the bottom side no biggie to me. It's like 1/8. As the Clemmons is more like 2/8. and the Hagbar/Bullsht line is about 3/8, Colby 1/8 and then you've got Razor Roxanne's line which I'm still researching.

I really can't believe I'm arguing about my dog's papers though.

 

Dunn's "Destiny Mercedes" (I don't know if this is a destiny dog but it was bred to destiny pits 'gator dundee') is the daughter of Cowart's Bandit(4th gen) which falls back to Fox's Goldie to Clemmons' Nig Toby. This is on top.


PEDIGREE FOR MAX

blog.myspace.com/lethalpits

 

lol, we do that a lot here sometimes, esp. if ppl are debating if it should be bred.

Here is an online ped for Mercedes:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=127338

I don't see any Nigger Toby. There is some good game bred blood back there but it is so far back there is no way it will cancel out the bully blood.

Here is the ped to one of my girls. I think you will like it:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=56370

Give me a holler on the PM if you want. We don't live too far away.

 

Are those online peds accurate..? I'm just wondering.. on my ped here it says Fox's "Goldie" parents are Clemmons' "Nig Toby" and Barrett's "Chugger"? Thats weird.

 

Thats crazy. I have a mis print on my 6th ped. Says Fox's Goldie Sire is Clemmons' Nig Toby but the registration number doesn't match the other Nig Tobys on the pedigree, it matches Sorell's Gator Jr.

Whats with adba?