ukc vs. adba

So i was cruising around the ukc site and i read the description of the standard for the apbt and to me it sounds like its almost identical to the adba standard. Now as far as i can tell the adba must have "stolen" the standards from ukc because ukc was the original registry for the apbt. My question is what is the difference show wise between the two registries, and any other information to explain to me the differences would be great.

 

I prefer to go to ADBA shows, but both do some things better than the other. The big advantage for the ADBA is.... they insist the dogs be in shape. Way too many UKC judges, at least at the shows I've seen seem to think Pitbulls should be overweight. On the other hand, the UKC pays closer attention to how the dogs move and how they look stacked. The UKC insist on a dog being under control. The ADBA is really sloppy regarding having the dog under control. Some judges will favor dogs that are straining on their leashes and screaming to get at other dogs. A lot of dogs are so hot to go after other dogs that the person showing them can't really "run" with the dog, they just sort of drag it along.

The ADBA dogs look a lot more like what I think a Pitbull should look like. Just my take.

 

UKC does not pay more attention to how the dogs move vs ADBA, ADBA dogs move like athletes, UKC dogs move how they were trained to move which is an unatural/non athletic movement. UKC dogs can take a show and be overweight slobs, most of the dogs there are slobs. ADBA dogs do the correct stack, the whole UKC stack was meant for UKC dogs, not gamedogs

take a coditioned dog to a UKC show and you may be welcomed by authorities in the parking lot dogs need to have layers of fat to show UKC, its their standard

UKC has nothing to do with the gamedog

 

In other words pennsooner is saying UKC is the Overweight Olympics for pitbulls and ADBA is for all pitbulls that meet pitbull standards...LOL J/K. It is true that UKC was the 1st to register American Pitbull Terrier but it doesn't mean that ADBA stole the standard from UKC because if that's the case, there are other registry out there than have done the same as well not just ADBA.

 

Just a question.

Doesnt UKC register Amstaff under APBT name?

I mean, i thought they think or want to believe both breeds are the same since the Amstaff was breed off APBT.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but here in Spain we have no shows even tho we are trying to get a club started!

 

Yes, UKC registers Amstaffs as APBTs but so does ADBA

 

I think both are good organizations. I'm just getting to learn about ADBA more; even though my dogs are registered with them I had only done UKC shows. There aren't too many ADBA shows by me.

As for looking at movement. in UKC you gait the dog under control so you can see if a dog paddles, sidewinds bunny hops etc.

Now I've only done one day of ADBA showing so deal with me here, but I did sit and watch every class and also asked a ton of questions. In ADBA the dogs are not seen gaiting around the ring in most cases from what I watched like UKC that is vorrect.
Not that that is a bad thing but I don't think you can judge movement per say the same way if the dog is not under control on the lead. That being said if the dog has proper structure it should move correctly and visa versa. However, IMO I think you can judge the drive of the dog and energy level more when it is moved like that. Hopefully one of the judges on the forum will chime in because I'd like to learn more too.

I'm going off of what I saw. I don't think one thing is better than the other they are looking for the same thing in a slightly different way.

I have much more experience with UKC. Now to say that UKC dogs are trained to move a certain way is incorrect. The way a dog gaits is the way it gaits you can't teach it to walk properly if its structure sucks LOL. A dog that can move can move and one that can't can't no two ways about it.

You also can not make generalizations about the shape of UKC dogs and ADBA dogs.
Also remember some like mine are dual registered ADBA UKC. There are also UKC?ADBA dual CHs and even I think only one ADBA/UKC Dual GRCH

At both the UKC shows and the ADBA show I saw out of shape dogs and also ones in great shape.

At ADBA there are more dogs at least at the show I went too. I do agree though the percentage of dogs in ADBA seeemed MUCH better condition. Though I also saw a couple (not many) to the other extreme that were not conditioned had little muscle tone which is the other extreme like a skeleton.

I would like to see the ADBA judges put hands on the dogs when they do exams.
I think this is a good test of temperament and would cut down on dogs that shouldn't be in the ring due to other issues unbecoming of the breed.

 

Doesnt the U.K.C have more guidlines when it comes to faults like dudley noses,90% white,etc?

 

No, any nose color or coat color is acceptable except Merle and any eye color blue

 

i don't care for either of them registeries.but for shows i would go with the ones sanctioned by the ADBA.they are your gamedogs at them shows but when i went to the one in Odessa Texas i seen a couple big ones there as well.but of the 2 i would go with a ADBA show any day.but as far as papering dogs through them i go with neither.

 

Must have been the A.K.C. and AMSTAf's I was thinking of.

 

I agree with u. But for me I dont care for ether.I dont care for papers on my dogs as long as i know who and how they bred.I prefore BF. UKC is for them damn bully looking pits and as for the ADBA i dont trust them.

 

I think a lot of registry bashing comes from not understanding what you are seeing. With regard to the UKC judges only putting up fat dogs, I don't know if its AKC influence, or if its because people just go along with it. If handlers would stop fattening their dogs up for UKC, then UKC judges would be unable to pick fat dogs. If ADBA people would start gaiting their dogs instead of letting them bounce along on their hindlegs, then people would stop saying that the judges aren't judging gait. (I had an ADBA judge thank me for gaiting and stacking my dog. Most of the dogs were dragging their handlers along for the gait, and squirming back and forth come stacking time.)

There is room for change in any registry; it just depends on what the members want, and if they're willing to do something about it. I see the strengths and drawbacks to each. As far as stealing the standard, I really doubt it.

 

Good post Baha. We lean more toward ADBA ourselves. I try (key word is "try" lol) to teach my dogs to have manners in the ring & although I will admit we aren't UKC perfect by far. I do like the dog to have *some* animation & let them self-stack. I will not discourage interest in another dog, but I do not want them on their hind legs or showing out like nuts.

As for ADBA vs. UKC, I had to show my ADBA male against a UKC GR.CH. The judge said it was like judging apples & oranges b/c my dog was a game dog type, while the UKC one was of a staff type.

My dog ended up winning out b/c while he stood still, he was more animated. His ears would move & he would look at the judge if the judge called to him. The professional show dog however, stood stock-still like a statue once stacked & showed no animation or life whatsoever.

So I like my guys in between - not raring crazy like ADBA dogs, but not corpse still like UKC dogs either.

 

I wish more people would cross-show. Both registries could do with not only new blood, but also the exchange of ideas to improve both rings. I think you see a lot more UKC people showing in ADBA than the reverse. It'd be nice if there were more acceptance on both sides for the different rings available. But some are so full of disdain and loathing that they would never see the redeeming virtue in anything outside their sphere of experience. Oh well, we keep forging ahead...

I know what you mean about the stoic showers. Some dogs take their showing very seriously, and they put their game faces on while they're in the ring. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are lacking in general, but in the ring, they've got a job to do. And let's face it; that job is boooooooring. Loki isn't a very animated shower because she could care less about the other dogs actin' a fool around her. In one particularly hot ring, I had to keep stopping her from laying down and rolling in the dirt while the judge was looking over the other dogs. Last time we showed, the only reason she perked up was because there was a mouse running back and forth along the wall. (Unfortunately, that meant that she kept looking animated while pointing away from the judge, so I don't think she got to see it.)

With my next dog, I'm going to show in both registries. Provided I don't run into problems with my dog learning ADBA manners, I may end up doing both at the same time, since there is an appalling lack of UKC shows here. Should be interesting.

 

well i will tell you why i don't like either one now this is just for me don't know what the reasons are for others.for the UKC the reason i don't like them is they wouldn't know a bulldog if it bit them in the ass.they thing them hundred pound curs are bulldogs and dogs with heavy am staff breeding are bulldogs.they don't care about working ability they only care about if it is a pretty color and how it walks and runs.now for the ADBA i knew the people who took that over [the Greenwoods] and even though they still have it,they have really done everything that Ralph didn't want done and it is all in the name of money.i know that for a while other breeds were taken in before and to some the really don't care but i looked the other way before but this time they went to far with their PC bullshit.they turned their back on the breed and the dogmen whether they will admit it or not they took all the pictures down off the site last time i checked and only had a section for bulldogs and there was not one to be found on the main page that greets people when they first log onto it.so why would they even need my buisness i can't think of a single reason.so myself i will keep a record for myself because i know how they are bred,how they will be bred and who they go to.and folks that they go to know how i breed dogs and how i do things.thats the reasons why i don't like either of them paper places.

 

Wasnt there a dog that in the last couple of years landed up on the front of the gazzete or honored that was duel registerd? dual champion, if my memory serves me? If any one knows what animal I'm talking about,can you please post the info on this dog and a pic.

This dog is No slouch!

 

I think you might be refering to this dog...she is a very nice bitch...
UKC GRCH UWPCH ADBA GRCH Reloaded's Persephone of Matrix

 

That's awsome!

Thank's Mo pulldogs.

 

To the OP: I've been showing ADBA for 11 or so years and I don't think the standards are very similar. Since I've never been to a UKC show, I can only speak from the ADBA view point. I don't think the standards were very similar at all initially. The ADBA standard was written more from a performance stand point and not so much astetics. A few years ago the ADBA revamped theirs to read more "PC". I wish I had saved the original on line but I didn't. I think I may still have it around here in hard copy form.
Here is the ADBA Standard now:
http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=32&pg=32
Some of the changes off the top of my head. . .Section II. C is new, Section VI. Head and Neck is very much expanded - the old standard said very little about the head.

In comparing the two, I think the UKC Standard overall puts much more emphasis on looks. Much more focus on head shape, eyes, ears, tail - things that have nothing to do with function. Also, a bobbed tail is a DQ in the UKC and a fault in the ADBA.

UKC people correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the level of competetion is a lot greater at an ADBA show. At a UKC show there are how many dogs? Thirty or so maybe? I think I'd feel much better taking Best of Show over 300 dogs than 30.

One thing I do wish the ADBA would adopt from the UKC is judges putting their hands on the dogs. There are way too many man biters being shown in the ADBA and winning trophies - it's like this dirty little secret that nobody wants to address. It was suggested to me that I would need to go to the convention and bring it up there.

Oldtimer: http://www.adba.cc/ Maybe you last saw the site when it was under construction, but there are 4 pictures of bull dogs on the front page.

RE the Matrix dog, I believe I've seen photos of that dog on the net described as "UKC" shape and "ADBA" shape that looked vastly different.