Truth Or Myth

I was on another board and there was a member saying that the APBT doesn't have terrier blood in it. He said that the old dogmen were breeding solely for gameness and would have never mixed a non game terrier blood with it. Does this have any truth to it or is it just made up BS?

 

no sir this is false, there are some pure bred working terriers out there that would be dead game if they were allowed, the patterdale for example. I believe the terrier was mixed in to give the tenacity and the gameness and the bulldog was used for the strength and probably gameness aswell

 

I agree B. Couldnt have said it better myself.

 

Most WORKING terriers do have a high percentage of dead game dogs.Way more than our bulldogs of today.

 

it seems here in iowa every farm has a single rat terrier, and thats all youll see for dogs. occasionally a blue heeler, but the little rat terriers ive been around are not very acceptable of new dogs

 

I will have to disagree with this post..What is your defenition of DG?..I know people that say a Patterdale will go and get a coon or whatever and hang tough when it gets tough but DG?..Lets say he gets hit on the muzzle by his quarry and catches a bleeder,and bleeds to death..Is this DG?..HOW can a dog that attacks and kills(?) varmin be catogorized with a dog that will continue engaging his advasary even with broken limbs,and going into shock?..As for the percentages..I dont think any brred of dog produces anywhere near a high percentage of game dogs,let alone DG dogs,but the APBT is light years ahead of any other breed of dog..(I read somwhere that gamebirds throw a high percentage of gameness into their offspring)..

This isnt meant to start an arguement or anything,and I respect most peoples opinion,but I think this statment has no merit..

 

I have personally seen patterdales that were from old bobcat hunting lines in Kansas that were more game in my opinion than any APBT I have ever seen. These little bastards would be let loose with some Jack Russles with good noses to work a cat down... and pin it somehwere but Jacks wont fight readily after they scent a big cat out.... then theyd let the Patterdales come in instead, and these paricular guys had a couple APBTs that were game ...that also went along before they owned patterdales... the patterdales would need to be on a cat about 7 to 1 and then the 2 big 60lb plus APBTs would come in and dispatch the cat fast ....sometimes,
these guys said if it was just the 2 APBTs alone that a 35lb cat would lay on its back and gut the dogs in 2 seconds a piece because the dog would just try to go into its guts and then it meet claws instead.... but when there is 7 25lb Patterdales on it too they git er done ....as long as you didnt let the patterdales and GameDogs get together theyd fight too....the next day the APBTs were happy to lay around and lick woulds if they had em,,, but those patterdales could be little swollen cut up puss balls and be wiggling at the kennel doors ready to go again....they can indeed be some very game little bastards and I would say possibly even DG ...but not DG with other dogs so much it seems...its weird... its like the patterdales were DG for other animals... and the pack instinct APBTS dont have were left in and preserved in the patterdales.... but if one of those APBTs grabbed one they didnt have the drive they had on a cat and didnt fight back for long I was told with another dog. These guys also said most of the time if you crossed a good game Patterdale and good game APBT you got garbage. just a wierd looking cross without much more than pet qualities. Explain that one? I have always thought about those weird DNA/ Genetic reasons why some crosses that look good from what you see with your own eyes in performance...but genetically the dont work in the real world and what you could imagine from what you put in genetically dont come out like that. In my head i could imagine the cross making a superb hunting dog for many types of game but I guess it isnt the case.

 

No one knows anymore. It was hundreds of years ago, and breedings at that time were more often than not, kept secret.

In certain lines of gamefowl, if you breed 100 birds, you can almost expect 99 of them to be dead game.

 

i grew up outside of des moines in a small town called adel. and i tell you what, damn near every farm i ever went to had at least one form of working dog be it a terrier or hound of some sort. there was one guy that was breeding wonderful American Bulldogs and he sold them mostly to farmers too. but for the original question, if you have to ask other people if the APBTerrier has terrier in it, find a different breed please. seriously. i'm not trying to be rude and who knows, maybe you don't have any. but if you do and you belong to any kind of informational site and you are asking that question, don't expect have your a$$ pampered as most people would likely just laugh at you. we all started somewhere, but your question falls into the realm of stupidity since you obviously haven't even bothered to call these dogs what they are: American Pit Bull Terriers. this gets old after a while.....

 

i have seen a patterdale work with its nose chewed off and love every last bit of it.. no arueing here its just i dont think you have seen enough terriers work to make that call..but i could be wrong .. i have said it before and ill say it again i have seen the roosters fight a lot and them things aint no were near GAME . The handelers pull there heads blow up there asses and plopp them down on the ground trying to get them to work ..and hell most of them will run from a duck no shit thats the truth..i seen more than once .

 

Would you call a race horse that runs until he dies dead game?Would you call a pidgon that flys hundreds of miles and drops out of the sky dead game?The definition of dead game is anything that will willingly lay down its life doing what they were breed to do.The gameness gene is the easyest to loose.You need to open your eyes and read a few of these posts about people breeding 8 month old puppys?How game are they?Theres thousands of puppy peddlers out there.The folks who breed real hunting terriers only breed there best cause why?They keep some of there pups and raise them.How many of these puppy peddlers do that.Your so brainwashed that the pit bull has a lock on gameness.Thats not a knock on you personaly thats just what most pit bull owners think.How much do you know about a true hunting terrier?Did you know out west they hunt mountian lions with 25 pound dogs?They hunt bear boar badgers you name it.If thats not game whats your defintion?

 

Willypete...You are correct in your assumption that I have not seen many working terriers and it was probably a little ignorant of me to say ANYTHING about hunting terriers/farm dogs as I have no expierience with either,but I have seen more than a few bulldogs work their trade and to say that a dog is game without REALLY proving it is purley wishful thinking..

Reddog..Would I consider a horse that ran to death DG,or a pigeon that flew himself to death DG?..I dont know..If a cattle dog got kicked in the face `by a steer and died would he be DG?..If a Labradoodle drown while fetching fallen fowl,would he be DG?..The word "game" and "DG" have a different meaning to dogmen like myself and dont get thrown around to loosley..Witnessing a dog that will take a lickin' and keep on tickin' is something to behold as there really arent "that many" around that can REALLY be considered game let alone DG..

Misterdogman..You may have seen patterdales that were gamer than any APBT you ever saw,but in my opinion that just means you havent seen a good game bulldog..No disrespect intended..I have seen more than a few bulldogs sharpen their skills,and can honestly say I have only seen one example(in person) of a dog that I would consider DG..

These are just my opinions,and are not meant to disrespect anyone..

 

Saying I havent seen a game bull dog is saying several game dogs owned by members here arent game and there are several here I have seen in person and many game dogs period I have seen around the world. You must understand what I am saying though before assuming. Refer to my statement about what happens if a APBT grabs a Patterdale....but when it comes to a cat or something its different. Gameness is a definition regarding unwillingness to quit...not just against another dog but any prey aquired and when it comes to the statement I made Ill stand by it. HAve you ever even seen a patterdale go on anything or been around any?

 

No sir..YOU are saying that none of the members on this board that you know have dogs gamer (in your opinion) than a patterdale...Re read your first sentence in your previous post..

You say that you have seen many gamedogs from around the world,yet a patterdale is the gamest dog you ever saw?..You must be socializing with the wrong crowd dude..Seriously,if you made that statment in front of any seasoned dogman you would be brushed off as a newbie (not saying you are)..

You seem to somehow equate hunting with the game..Someone told you that if 2 60lb APBT's caught a cat (bobcat?) that the cat would lay on its back and gut them..This is laughable..When have you ever seen a stressed cat lay on its back and wait to gut its opponent?..lol..And the claws would deter a dog from going into his guts?..lol..Now I see why you say what you say about patteredales being gamer than the APBT's youve seen..It would take about 2 seconds for a good bulldog(not 2 of them) to grab,shake,and kill a bobcat..Cats go into shock very easily..Whomever gave you this info also must have not seen any good game bulldogs..
In my opinion as well as MANY other there is only one way to determine if you have a GAME dog...and its not by hunting cats!

 

Woulds like to delete my response, but I can't!

 

Yes, they will run from a duck. They've been bred to fight chickens, not ducks :p Most APBT's are curs as well, because many refuse to fight a human in a fight?

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd realize they blow on their "asses" to cool the bird down. That's it. And for your information, many handlers of DOGS will blow on their dogs asses, to try to help curb the internal temperature skyrocketing to the point of nervous failure. Maybe you thought they were filling up the "game balloon" back there, so they are propelled to scratch?

I've seen birds get cut in the chest first fly, guts hanging onto the carpet, and their handler pick them back up and stuff them inside. Set them on the carpet, and they GO without hesitation. That is GAME, only an idiot would argue such a thing!

 

So spf you said if he made that statement in front of any seasoned dogman he would be brushed off.Are you saying your ''not a seasoned dog man''?Boy you sure sound like one to me.WOW you've seen a game dog go and everything.And all that good info on whats a game animal and whats not,man you gotta be an old timer.Your my hero dude!

 

There is over 150 years of pedigree documentation of the breed of APBT and no one can specifically say what breed of Terrier was used!

Also hunting bred terrier doesn't make it game bred dog fighting breed!!

AND IF there was terrier use in any particular breed of dog, that help make up the APBT, doesn't mean ALL the other breeds, which was also used in the foundation breeding of the APBT, also had terrier in them...

http://ironlinekennels.com/NorrodBillboard/viewtopic.php?t=295

 

BTW you don't cool a Pit Dog down the same way you cool a Game Cock down.
The dog man and the cocker handles their animals differently.

Pit Dog you cool down first, depending on who's turn it is to scratch, if it isn't your turn then you wipe out the mouth, then to cool the dog down the sponge or rag you can either put it on their balls, neck/throat area so the air is cooled when it breaths, or under the spine area in the chest or at the base of the neck by the shoulder area where one of the main part of the central nervous system is.
And the last thing to do is make sure to ring out all the water on the area of which the other dog is working. This is to make it slippery and for the other dog to swallow blood, water and hair hoping later on it will make the other dog noxious.

 

I can see where this is going...I do not intent to get into a message board war with you or anyone one else so let that be known..

What Im saying is if he or you,or anyone else for that matter went to where I go to "see whats up" and said that this patterdale,or this jag or this whatever was the gamest dog I ever saw they would laugh at you..And if you said that patterdales have a higher percentage of game and DG dogs than bulldogs you would NEVER hear the end of it..
As for your sarcasm I have had "bulldogs" for close to 10yrs and have owned individuals from the breed for over 15yrs..So no, Im not a oldtimer and probably wouldnt be considered "seasoned" by a oldtimer either but Ive put some time in..Im glad you have someone to look up to now..Happy Holidays