Todays staffords it's a shame

WTF Dont mess up whats becoming a decent thread

 

The dog you talk of was not a pure stafford 1/4 APBT on the dam side, you are right he was not bred much, littleman was probly the best he sired, but bottom line the dog quit and not just the once......

 

theres a dog ;was/ called havoc!thersare some say he was black brindle maybe so ! but what about havoc from s/yorkshire a white n brindle ?

 

He is not 1/4 APBT. He is 12.5% APBT and 25% unknown breeding out of Ireland. Making Littleman and his siblings 6.25% APBT and 12.5% unknown. When those siblings are bred they will reproduce half of that percentage to their offspring! 3.12% APBT blood and 6.25% unknown breeding, next to nothing in my book!

I talked with the owners of Red Bull and they said that what happened was their blame. If he quit again at a later date it would not be strange, once a dog has quit it will quit sooner next time. A few percentage of APBT blood, and if he quit or what ever, it is still some of the hardest tried Staff blood in the UK! If looking for the genuine stuff- why not? I would use that before some paper bred crap that had Psycho or Red Warrior stacked all of their fifth or sixth gen.

This thread has focused on this particiluar champ- while there are atleast one other Staff CH in recent time. I am not so eager to talk about specific dogs- more to point out the fact that it is still possible to breed good Staffs.

 

What ever RB is % wise he was looked at which is more than most, who knows in all honesty whats what unless you bred it yourself you can only go on what the breeder says which 9 times out of 10 is shite.
There just not enough been campained, but every now and again they pop up which is enough and fair play to them the lads trying. CH R is an honest dog and hopefully will produce and put a smile on the purests faces

 

i can think of 3 living stafford champions (if you class RB as a stafford , which i do), before folks start knocking them they should remember that these dogs are not from 100 years of tested animals only at most a few generations, it should be no suprise if any of them will stop, more a suprise that they can win in some pretty respectable lengthed matches as they all did. if wanting to breed staffords of a decent quality then i would look at these dogs before any of the "old line" dogs that have not been properly used for years.i know the deal with RB's loss and his owners got it wrong, an excuse for the loss yes but possibly not for stopping but at the end of the day, how many staffords in recent times have done what he did ? people should get rteal, they will never be apbt's , just not enough of them of true quality but a few have proved better than could be expected and for me they are the only ones worth breeding to if you have a game stafford gyp kicking around and want to keep them pure.i never heard of rb quitting after his match, quite the opposite infact but i suppose people make lots of things up, i heard zebo,jeep,art,skipper,max, hagar all quit , nobody ever proved it, just hearsay.

 

Whats the 3 champions, don't have to give owners names just the dogs and what they beat
I know of 1 genuine champ from Scandinavia his record was in EGR, not saying they are'nt just don't know them ? ....R

 

Whoever those three dogs are,i think it is fair to say that if any owner decides not to promote/publicise the merits of any dog,then they should be entitled to that privacy.
It's good to read them private mags/books or genuine history on the net,but not so good if your dog is there for all & sundry to see. That is (of course) if you do not want that said dog out in the open.

 

a good point molly.

 

I understand, I have since found out what dogs they are...R

 

Thats intresting because the owner/breeder told me he was 1/4 APBT and i spoke with the fellas who saw the dam many times they also told me she was 1/2 APBT so who really knows?... he produced SOME decent offspring and that was it his breeding career is over.....

And their mayber more dogs to talk of as you say on the rocks but it is not are place to say......

 

Shorty Bull? View attachment 19488

 

Trade the B for a M, keep the u,trade the l's for t's.

 

This is turning out to be interesting, thanks for those who responded wel and it seems it got some thinking.

About the working sbt world beeing so close and silent for peddlers i call that a big BS.
It may offent some but it should only be closed for general public, so thanks for those who named current day dogs :cool:
It should not be closed for the working dog world, so if there were more SBT's who could hunt with APBT, those real working kennels would know about them but to my suprise hardly anybody heard of them but 'stafford' folks.

The dogs named, please do not make me laught to loud about keeping it close and away from peddlers.
LM came to the wetlands to someone who peddles and lies to the buyers of his pups.
Who breeds between a curr and a cold dog, if LM was the best 1 out of the litter why sell him and that white bitch out of N to him ?
Not to name the mentality of other owners and stil showing false pedigree with show stock sbt in it and tanya bottom LOL.
It is stil hard for some to be honest.

 

Its not correct, its naive to think the dog fanciers are a big happy family where everyone knows everything about everyone elses business. Besides the CH´s are wellknown in their respective regions.

Ohh- great some serious old fashion hating going on! Again there are many valid reassons to sell a dog other than quality issues. There could be lack of space, need of money or what ever. In that case I know it was most down to lack of space. The reality of keeping more than one or two dogs is that you sometimes need to make room for upcoming dogs. Again, that guy you are bashing did not mate LM even once! And as far as I where told he is out of the dogs- so what is the problem?

 

I prefer a kc dog, i dont need a dog that cant kill other dog quicker, i dont need a dog that can run up wall or how long they can hang on a rope, or for pretection, i dont need a aminal to make me look harder i can look after myself.

 

it's no hating on the rocks, offcourse there are some reason why a person would sell a dog, this is more wondering why al the talk about keeping it close and al and then go on sell that dog to a person who is indeed not active nor did he had the space to proper house the dog self or to put up a sound breeding program.
This is no bashing, i know that bloke haven't bred LM but you can not deny what he did in the past did not happend.
Please do not tell me those people are stand up, even when 1 person who had a bitch of him went to sweden to do a line breeding to a certain dog, he stil did not had the balls to tell her that her dog was not bred the way she is on papers and his 'friends' were laughing about it.
Trust me mate, i know first hand how they are in the wetlands and what they have bred to, so maybe you have a sound breeding program but over here please and LM is wasting his time away.
Like i said to bad the owners stil only show pedigree of show stock stb with the ffb stuff, people have no problems with a dog's heratige, i found out as long as the dog work's fine but the fact that they can not be honest is more of an issue

 

Then you might be better of at another board then Gamedogs my friend.

 

I am not going to argue with you on the credentials of the guy and his past dealings. All I am telling you is that he did not peddle LM, and that was the topic of the conversation. Even among the most respected people in these dogs, there are very few that do not have some shady stuff behind them.

What you are trying to oppose is the fact that the good dogs are kept close. Well since LM was not bred in the hands of the guy you mention, you do not have much of a case concerning that dog.

The rest of the shady stuff you mention I am not going to bother to debate, since I personally do not think their stuff fall into the category you are arguing about; which is dogs kept close. Actually most of their stuff is watered down and with doubtfull pedigrees. For me that is not what I refere to when I talk about dogs that has been kept close by good people. The good contemporary stuff is still kept close, and you have not proved otherwise.

 

Nobody,i'm interested in why you mention Tanya in the same sentence as the obviously wrong papered up KC blood in them dogs. If you believe Tanya is wrong in the background,then let's hear your opinion.
I believe you are wrong in that the white bitch was sold,but that is matterless.