Todays staffords it's a shame

That trusty was very famous in his own day.I think the problem is with people breeding for a certain look and associating that look with "a proper staff" or a gamedog.If one looks back over the gamedogs of the last century-they vary a lot-successful sires come along and stamp their type on the breed,several years later another successful sire of a different type comes along-dosent matter what they look like as long as their game.

 

I have to agree culabula.

 

Do you believe a dog could have 104 matches ? if his 1st was at a year old and had one every month, it would take near 9 years to do, that if you don't rest him up after each battle, not much good at using the computer but there is lots of old prints where the old bulldogs looked just like modern APBTs, look at the Henry Alken prints, bear, bull baiting and dogfighting...may be the artist who did the "Trusty" picture, may not have got a very good likeness....R

 

His record is recorded as 104 wins...3 killed out right...he was a famous dog in england at a time when dog fighting was very popular and legal... a dog or cock pit was a common a sight in a pub as a pool table was in the 1970's-80's...with the amount of dogs being matched at that time i would guess the %of gameness would be higher ...the dog was was first owend by Lord camelford who gave the dog as a pension to Jem Belcher who was champion boxer of england but forced to retire due to losing an eye...i have a pic of Belcher with a bobtail bitch and pup that looks similar to Trusty...after Belcher basically drinks himself to death the dog passes to Captain Barclay famous in the sporting fancy for conditioning Tom Cribb in his fight over moleneux...when Barclay died he had only one painting in his scottish mansion...a picture of Trusty...camelford and Barclay where famous in the sporting fancy of the day and wealthy...they obviously owened the dog for his reputation and stud fees...a very important dog in his day...i wonder if his blood is still floating around in the genepool of many modern game dogs...i've collected alot of old books on boxing history (prize ring) over the years...the history often overlaps with the history of the game dogs...old pictures of the westminister pit seems to show small very fit stafford type dogs as do other historical prints i have here...but its impossible to tell from a picture for sure...i think its fair to say Game dogs came in all shapes and sizes back then

 

I don't think you get it, best dogs now, are lucky to 3-5 matches in a life time, after a keep 6-8 week, and month or two to heal up, find another match and put in another keep, most any dog could do is about 3 matches a year !!!! some super dog get to 7-10 matches in their life time,but are rare, it is totally impossible for a dog to have 104 matches !! work out the maths....R

 

Regarding the early days the Duke of Hamilton in Scotland owned and bred a highly regarded strain of fighting dogs in the late eighteenth early nineteenth century.

 

Yeah i get wot your saying...just adding a bit of info to the debate... but...your putting modern values to old fashioned standards...we are talking...1804...doubt they bothered with much healing time and the keeps would not of been up the standard we know today...probably thought nothing of matching dogs twice in a night...or putting it in with a monkey or a bloody dwarf for that matter...it was 1804!!!!...finding another match would be no problem it was legal and in London very popular...some pubs where walk up try a dog affairs...for the dog to have been written about and painted back then and remembered today it had to be some dog!...its there in the history books for all to read

 

yes I can see what you mean, but still if matched tonight it would be weeks before he was healed up, 5-6 matches a lot of teeth are broke/ gone, broken feet, 104 seems to me way too much, for him to have that many matches his opponents must have been useless, ...R

 

I also doubt that any dog could compete in 104 matches and win them all. Maybe they just put him up against dogs alot smaller than him?

 

104} i call bullshit!!
as with most story they seem to get exaggerated each time they are told.

 

some are still solid (workable) dogs....this is mine....he ripped,athletic and if need be no doubt could hold his own.....I truely believe this fine animal would do anything for me if he could.....some are still outstanding.

 

I would re-phrase what you our saying (anything ???) well try him out then you will then know lol.

as for SBT bull shit I will stick to the mutts thanks:dogkiss:

 

I agree for the most part....you are right...I'm not comparing SBT to apbt that would not be logical....Im saying for what they are there are some solid ones out there mine is not typical mine comes from good stock....I can assure you that,but at the same time it is no apbt..

 

if someone was going to break the law wouldnt they rather increase their chances of having a good dog? Not being funny but how many staffords produce? If your going to break the law anyway you want to win and hands down the stafford doesnt compare with the pitbull if it did more people would keep the dogs im sure.

 

staffords arent a banned breed, lets keep it that way !!1:dogtongue:

 

No staffords arent banned but testing dogs is and so if the person was interested in that anyway they arent going to be too fussed about owning a banned breed and the staffords dont compare. You may get the odd few pop up but do they produce and what was the level of comp?

 

your right there mate ,true blood seems to be thinner ,

 

dont waste your time Elmo this guy is a clown

 

it's our responsability to keep them true to type and away from the showring mentality

 

Getting back to the title of this topic "todays staffords its a shame"
The pitbull or stafford debate could go on all day but any dogman around either sporting breed would if honest come out with the same question "Why bother with the stafford as the pitbull is superior in its choosen sport". This is fact proven over and over again in the field, yes you get the one offs but as a betting man you know where the moneys at.
I always had a soft spot for the wellbred stafford and admire the purists sticking with the breed instead of turning there backs on it.The question is "Would the stafford be in the state its in today if the genuine working lads hadnt turned there back on them when the pitbull came over??"
Many lads were happy with what the had back in the day yet got rid because everyone had pitbull frenzy. If this had not been the case and we had carried on with the stafford Im sure the dog would not be in the state its in now,IMO