starting ur own bloodline

1st things 1st i aint tryn to start my own bloodline nor do i want to become a breeder...there r many breeders out that claim to run their own bloodline.but when u look at their dogs peds,their names dont go past the 2nd generation.how many dogs that u bred shuld appear in the ped in order fr u to consider that bloodline as ur own?im thinkn more than half of that ped shuld have ur name all over it.

 

By Amy Greenwood Burford

There has been a lot of interest expressed as of late with the definition of a breeder and the definition of a bloodline. Even outside of the dog world, there is much talk of ones bloodlines.

A few weeks ago, I was commenting to a young mother about the personality of her pre-term infant. I commented, "She is definitely a feisty one." The mother replied, "Oh, she comes by it naturally. It's in her bloodline." In reading an interview that was done by a rap star, he spoke with affection concerning his wife and said, "She is my bloodline." There is also a music company that specializes in rap called Bloodline Records.

Technically, the breeder of a litter of pups, is the owner of the dam. It is the owner of the dam who decides that this bitch is worthy to breed and goes about to find the proper stud to breed her with, to produce the litter. This is not etched in stone and we have seen in about 10% of the case when a litter is submitted into the registration office, the owner of the sire is listed as the breeder. This is an issue that can be decided between the owners of the sire and the dam. This is a technical definintion, but for a person who is deciding to become a "breeder" of American Pit Bull Terriers, or to establish their own bloodline, there is much more of a commitment expected.

We can look to the history of the breed and use those breeders and bloodlines that have held up as the finest examples to use in formulating our understanding of what it takes to be a breeder and what a bloodline is. One of the more notable examples of this was Howard Heinzl and the Heinzl bloodline. The Heinzl bloodline was established based on three well known bloodlines of the era- the Corvino, Tudor, and Colby lines. A "standard" was set in each breeding that was done, only the pups that met the "standard" were retained in the breeding pool. Howard studied pedigrees and investigated the individual dogs in the pedigrees of the dogs that he was using as brood stock. He had a vast knowledge of the principles of genetics and talked with other breeders of dogs as well as horse breeders and breeders of other livestock. Howard had a written plan of future bleeding’s that he wanted to make, always keeping his "standard" in mind. Howard used line breeding, inbreeding, and out-crossed breeding among the three quality lines within the formulation of his bloodline. Throughout his career, fanciers could always count on the quality that the Heinzl line was based on, when acquiring a Heinzl dog. These qualities included beautiful athletic conformation, soundness, health and beautiful heads with strong teeth. The Heinzl dogs were known for wrestling ability, being long winded and possessing endless endurance. His family of dogs, after his many years of selection, all had these qualities. This is what constitutes a bloodline. the dogs breed true for the trait or traits that the breeder is aiming for.

Now all coins have a flip side, and so it is with dogs. There are also undesirable traits that are apparent in some dogs. There are certain bloodlines that have become known in the American Pit Bull Terrier fraternity that breed true for some of the more undesirable traits such as shyness, structural problems or health issues.

So what can we learn from looking at the Heinzl dogs as an example of a bloodline and Howard Heinzl as a breeder of American Pit Bull Terriers?

1) A bloodline can be defined as a family of dogs that breed true for certain traits that the breeder sets as his "standard". A breeder's standard should always start with breed type. Those physical characteristics that were established in the breed that reflect the history and original purpose of the breed and enable a breed to be distinguished apart from other breeds. These include temperament, overall proportions, balance, soundness and health.

2) A breeder has to start with quality stock from somewhere. A through research into the dogs in the background or the pedigree of the dogs is ESSENTIAL to learn about the traits that they possess as well as how they were developed. Such as line breeding, inbreeding or out-crossed breeding. As in the example of Howard Heinzl, many successful breeders usually start with two or three outstanding lines to serve as the foundation of their bloodlines.

3) The principals of genetics and the ways to breed, (i.e., line breeding, inbreeding and out-cross breeding), and the strengths and weakness of each needs to be understood.

4) Accurate records of the breeding made and the pups produced need to be kept . Follow-up in the evaluation of the pups is essential, as is the selection of quality brood stock for future breeding. A breeding may look great on paper, but the evaluation of the offspring is essential to confirm what works and what does not. The pups that do not measure up to the breeder's "standard" should be spayed and neutered and go into responsible pet homes, so as not to muddy up or spoil the name of the breeder by producing sub-standard dogs that carry on the name of the breeder.

A bloodline can be based on a breeder, such as in the example of Howard Heinzl, or it can also be based on an individual stud dog or brood bitch. In this case, it is usually a prominent dog that genetically throws such quality, that a high percentage of its offspring all breed true for this quality. An example of this is Crenshaw's (Jerry's) Champion Honeybunch. Honeybunch was a bitch from the Carver and Boudreaux bloodline which genetically possessed such quality that, when bred to five different stud dogs, produced top dogs from every litter. There was no wrong way to breed this bitch. She produced quality from all five breeders. One of her sons, Crenshaw's Champion Jeep, is given credit in some circles for being one of the greatest producing studs of modern APBT history, You hear of fanciers, that credit Jeep with establishing a distinct "bloodline" of his own. We can argue that, Jeep is really a dog from the Honeybunch line or 25% Carver, 25% Boudreaux, 50% Loposay cross, depending on how far back in his pedigree you want to go or to whom you want to give the credit.

For a person who wishes to establish a quality bloodline of dogs, accurate record keeping is essential to record breeding’s, pups produced and establish accurate pedigrees. Each breeder or person wishing to establish themselves as a breeder must recognize and value this fact. If they do not, the predictability of the quality in the offspring that they produce is really a crap shoot and not based on the genetic laws of probability. Tell me which person wants to devote 20 years of time and money to develop a line of dogs that will not breed true because someone hung papers on an unknown dog for a quick buck? When you hear of someone claiming not to care about this or touting, "so and so did it, so I'm not so bad", you can quickly determine their quality of commitment to their breeding program and to the future of the breed.

Becoming a breeder of high quality American Pit Bull Terriers and establishing a "bloodline" of which to be proud, is no small feat. It is certainly more than putting a few litters on the ground. We salute those breeders of the past and those today that remain committed in producing the finest quality APBT's for future generations to come.

 

IMO a 4 gen ped of a particular dog should have the name of the breeder in at least in half the slots in the 4th gen to be considered that breeders line if the 3rd 2nd and 1st gen's were bred by them...... Some say not until a 4 gen ped if full of a particular breeders name of said dog is that dog of said breeders line... Yet still some say that 3 gen's is all that matters... And yet some say that when other people say that this here dog is a "so and so" dog that's what matters.... When did Colby dog's become colby dogs and not Gas House dogs.......?

 

You begin your own bloodline the moment you back two dogs up to eachother. Wether your bloodline will last or not only the future can tell.

The lady up there knows what she's talking about, seems it runs in her "bloodline" as well lol. A bloodline is also known as a family.

 

Glad you said that Gringo. Just because a breeders name is all over a ped does not mean its a family of dogs, it just means that the breeder may have bred those dogs. I myself strive to say the dogs in my yard are my family of dogs, however, this to me is a slow steady moving process. No shorts, no losses! Meaning as long as I stay true to ME, then my family will one day exist. As of now, I have two dogs locked in my program, and have no breedings planned for at least the next 18 months, and even then, I still might not be ready. I'll let the dogs tell me when the time is right.

 

I feel it is your bloodline when you put two dogs together. Now some will disagree and say credit goes to the people who produced the two dogs you put together and some credit should go to them. On the other hand I never hear breeders rushing to claim credit for the crappy dogs someone has bred from their bloodline. Instead they blame the person who decided to put the two together. It is one or the other not both ways.

 

this is a good thread,i think you must show some type of consistant breeding.family based(line breeding,in-breeding)i read somewhere j p colby breed thrity year with no out.that is time.a bloodline is not breed overnight.sound stock will make good dogs,its up to the person breeding the line;in question to continue to breed the best on his yard.not just to make the papers look good.breeders like marlowe,green,chavis,mayfeild,mims in my mind became bloodlines of breeders

 

i just dont c how sum of these breeders can call it their own line when they got the dogs from someone else and only made 1-2 breeding with said dogs.thats not your own bloodline.if u take a boylse/bolio dog n a boylse/redboy/jocko dog n breed them,u dnt have ur own blood...thease dogs r still gnna b boylse/bolio/redboy/jocko dogs.u dont change generations n generations with 1-2 breedns..i think it takes yrs n yrs of breeding to a selected dog(dogs),inbreedn n carfully crossing out in order to consider it ur own bloodline.u wuld have to doing this fr at least 10yrs.to make sure u r only breedn to gud proven dogs

 

its your bloodline when you find your best 2 dogs and breed em, that was your choice of which 2 dogs were best, idc what peds say dogs i bred are my dogs nomatter where i got em from or who their parents were, quality of a dog is shown in the dog not in the papers some people have shit dogs with great blood ya know, its all on the breeder to make a good choice about which are best so i feel its their bloodline and they get the credit

 

but it wuldnt b ur bloodline.u just bred 2 well proven dogs frm sumbody elses bloodline...

 

I don't really believe it has much (if anything) to do with how long you have the dogs or where they care from. I believe it becomes yours as soon as you start culling through your first breeding, and from there on out...how it fairs is totally up to you.

 

like someone else said i think it would take atleast 10 yrs of culling and breedings before you can make the bloodlines YOURS truly... because like the article said the dogs have to all show common traits therefore in the first few yrs your dogs are still someone elses in a certain extent...yea those dogs are of you "making" so to speak but they still have somebodies print on them in a way... i think its more about when your dogs consistently throw dogs that do the things and are built the way that you like them... but if you like that particular line for everything it does and keep it the way you got it i think then your just breeding that line of dogs and not making your own

 

a bloodline starts with the first breeding you put out.
its dogs bollocks to say its only your bloodline after 10 or somewhat years cuz it still started out with your first breeding. and no matter where the dogs come from only you make the decision of breeding them together not the person where the dogs come from. so i gotta agree with primeevilpitbulls on this one.

 

loudboy, why 10 years? LOL, just curious what the hang up is with the specified 10 years...as soon as you start culling your first breeding you are taking the offspring from your breeding, and picking, and choosing what you like, and care to build off of. If one want's to get technical I suppose you could say (by your logic anyway) that when you did an out crossing that then wouldn't "truly" be your breeding or bloodline. Isn't this thread about starting your own bloodline or family?

 

What if you have two dogs and you wait till theyre 10 years and then make your first breeding, can you call it your line then:confused:

 

the pups would be the first of your line age has nothing to do with it.
you might use other peoples ingredients but your the one baking the cake.

 

makes sense but sum of these breeders r breeding n selln.maybe they keep 1-2 but sell the rest.u cant cull what needs to be culled doing that

 

you a funny guy... but when i said the 10 yrs i wasnt trying to be scientific or specific but i just dont think after one breeding or even two that those are your dogs yet... because you have to have time to bred the traits you want into the dogs thats all i was saying... but yea in theory you can say those are "your" dogs but its not the same as having the same type of dogs on your yard for yrs and constantly putting out the same thing

 

well said i agree...

 

well by my logic the dog would be whatever percentage of dogs it was... i wasnt trying to sound like an authority on anything just my point of view... because for instance if i was running eli dogs and then crossed with a maverick dog it would still be in the same family... you have to have outs to keep the dogs healthy correct? it interests me as well because im sure anybody who's really serious about the dogs would love to put their mark on the game but i understand the whole thought that once you back them up then the pups are yours and they are but back when the dogs were all pure familys so to speak it took yrs of breeding before you could say that those were your dogs