staffies and pitbull's history

ice pick surely you know that game dogs are not bred with beauty in mind.
but that jimmy boots is one ugly mofo....lol

 

You are correct RickyB!
Staffs winning 1 in 10 is a very generous statement for the Staffs. Fact is that there were/are no Staffs that can win against the majority of fast lane dogmen, and that is why you dont see staffs even going into the elite APBT's.

 

LOL, you are correct Jacko, I was also referring to the structure of Galtie. His head looks to small for his body to start with. His body does look "stout", so I would be surprised if he had stamina for 1hr., none the less 2 or 3 hours. just an observation, but what do I know. From my understanding the stout dogs USUALLY dont last as long as the rangy ones in Stamina. There is another little piece as to how Americans improved the dogs.

 

lol
i do agree with you regarding the stout dogs. and the rangy dogs do dance fine..be it apbt or the stafford.
the perfect specemin has yet to be born, but not for lack of trying.
i would like to see both breeds in another 30 years time, it will be interesting.:vovvetliten:

 

I agree jacko, and thats even if both breeds are not completely banned by then!

 

Who said anything about looks? Im talking about performance

 

scarecrows duke v scotsmans bash ????????????

 

interesting thread i found on google but the thread was originally posted here >>
"Duke" was a KC Reg Staff of "Rapparee" breeding who was very highly regarded in sporting circle's with a reputation for giving a torrid time to some well-bred Pitbull's,not to mention leaving their owner's somewhat red-faced!The first was a game-tested Gino X Reid dog that had seen quite enough of Duke by the 42 minute mark.Next was a Bronson/Nelis dog with a reputation,who saw Duke as a warm-up to "Bigger & Better things" but half an hour in Duke's company was enough warming-up for this one!Duke was then matched against the very game,and future Champion "Scotsman's Bash",after a hard,evenly contested 1hr 30mins,it was becoming apparent that one of these game animals would have to take his death before a winner was found so Duke was picked-up by his owner,conceding the match but showing his desire to continue by giving a hard courtesy scratch. Duke was'nt bred very much for various reasons but apparently 2 or 3 of his son's are a chip of the old block causing the odd nightmare among the Pitbull's!.Duke was over 15 year's old before he passed away.

To me it would seem this pure bred stafford beat 2 good pitbulls and was only stopped in his 3rd fight against another highly rated pitbull because his owner cared too much but the fight was so close it was only going to end in some one of the dogs deaths?
Sounds like some staffords definately gave pitbulls all they wanted after all, even if it wasn't often the case.

 

Better performance is not just due to improved dogs, the dogs physically haven't changed that much as Tommy1985 said, but a lot has been learned and used to improve dogs such as diet and conditioning, and you also have to consider the facts some owners juiced the dogs which wasn't happening 100 years ago, but this is not pro boxing, there's no blood or piss testing.

 

Now there's a point, the only survivor might be the UK show stafford, by then they'll be the size of yorkie', we'll be seeing T-cup Staffords for sale in local papers lol

 

He is one in the very low % of staffs that won over APBTs, I know of many Staffs that beat APBTs, but as I said earlier the % is real low compared to the % of APBTs that beat Staffs...

 

In my book, the Staffs lack only lack one thing, serious breeding programs! To be bit rude, there are not many good breeders in Ireland or the Uk. But when it comes to Pit Bulls they can take the advantage of other people´s breeding programs and import good dogs.

I can name a bunch of Staffs that has beaten APBTs in the last decade, but it would not be right on this board. But if you would take the better ones, and put them in the hands of a good breeder- he would of course get good results and improve it for each generation.

We also need to acknowledge that Staffs is only an option in countries where they have banned the APBT. In all other countries they import APBTs! Only when the APBT is illegal the Staff will become a substitute. Most of the good Staffs that have been around for the last decade have been in those countries. If there are APBT breeders all over the world, but just a handful of people keeping Staffs, in a few countries where the APBT is illegal. It´s obvious that the results never going to be the same as with the Pit bulls. The competition will never be stiff in a country with breed specific legislation either.

I can honestly say that I have seen APBT´s with really impressive pedigrees disappoint me in a few minutes, while I have seen a more than one Staff impress me. As it has been said, a dog can´t read its pedigree- and a game Staff does not know he is just a Staff.

I have said it before, and it is worth repeating. The Staffs are like an enthusiast thing! It´s like people owning old race cars. If they wanted the best race car in the world, they would buy a new one. But the old race car perhaps has a glow and a feel in their eyes that the new one lacks.

 

But when staffs where still being campaigned against APBTs, the % of wins for staffs over APBTs was really low, so if you can name 1 that won over pits I can name 10 the other way round, I don't think a staff can compete with a APBTs , I was only commenting on Ireland where no one has matched a stafford in maybe 20 years

 

Load of rubbish, breeding best to best for years and years will definatly evolve and improve the dogs, how can you not get the idea that the dogs of the modern era are not better than the early dogs sent over? Do you think gameness just appeared in these dogs?

 

With all due respect, that's the point that's being made, gameness hasn't just appeared. Its been in the dogs right from the start that's why they were put in pits. Its been well preserved by good breeders and thank god for that but it can hardly be said that americans were the first to breed gameness into them? Yes I will admit to americans having quite a lot to do with preserving the gameness and protecting the pitbull from a pile of twats like the kennel club here and I thank them for it but it doesn't change my views of the pitbulls history and where its roots lie which is in this side of the pond.

 

Gameness has been in the dogs right from the start? Are you joking?? Gameness is a trait that is passed on through selective breeding, I'd bet my last penny that the modern gamedogs are gamer than the breed as ever been. Gameness isn't the only trait where these dogs have improved too

 

Best to best works but Stafford were left behind due to the popularity of Yankees but what if there was a country that had only staffs and from the eighties kept breeding on and on the best wind stamina ect ,completely focused on the staff 100 percent scarecrows duke,trap,jocko ,jack beanie 1,max,spike ect who nows the staff has been neglected due to popularity,
But what would be different you are offered a Yankee that is as good as rest Yankees or a Stafford that is as good as a Yankee I go Stafford for me .duke was special bred only ever 3 times due to Yankee popularity left in shade but if available now how many would jump for him ,
Sunny was half Stafford

 

The question is why did the APBT become so popular over the globe if the staff was on par with it?

 

Everybody goes with fashion it's a way of life b and q and Gucci live by it just my opinion .
What if Yankees were still legal would they be in the show ring by now yes they would someone would do it for sure.

 

so the breeding only introduced the gameness? The dogs that were set on bulls and bears weren't game? The dogs that's went on to work in pits weren't game? Gentleman jim wasn't as game as the pitbulls? Don't make me laugh mate. Any dog that's prepared to die fighting is as game as the dog next to him, I'm afraid ur confusing gameness with ability