staffies and pitbull's history

I know, but can you tell me why there's been so many of them bred in the USA or even worse > those low fat sluggish bully's "Barf"

 

You ask was any of the above APBTs matched into Staffords, other than Ch."Skateboard" (who stopped a son of Gr.Ch."Duke" in 30+mins) the answer is no, but thats what Im try to say by the end of the 1980s in Ireland no one that was matching dogs kept staff, every one had switched to APBTs, its was like putting your hard earned money on a lurcher -v- a track greyhound in a race...you'd be lucky to win 1 in a hundred

 

Ah C'mon, you've skated around my question, I'm not asking if in your opinion have you known a staff that you'd recon was a match, i'm asking had any of the dogs you mentioned actually get matched to a good staff and what was the outcome?

 

The people that keep that type of bulldog and breed for that type, they are not breeding APBTs..there are thousands of pure working game bred APBT breeders in USA , Europe and other countrys...why mention these back yard breeders breeding these bullys, they have no interest in APBTs for what they are..

 

I'd typed this before i saw your previous reply, so basically as i said previously also, there's very few instances where staffs were matched pound for pound with pits because most people were keeping pits and matching them pit to pit.
Thanks for replying

 

No there was lots of matched (Staff -v- apbt) and all ware pound for pound no one would give weight away, and Iv said the % of wins for staffords was real low, less than 1 in 10, people ended matching APBT to APBTs, because you ware just giving your money away most times backing on the Staff

 

Thats the same reasons I mentioned in another thread as to why Staffords have a great nature with people also, not just because he may bite a handler but because after a match he'd have to return home and live in a small house or even one room above a shop with a family with children and he had to be of a nature where he definately would not get nasty if touched or pulled and prodded by the children even if he was sore all over.

 

would it be fair to say the people who told you this held on to staffords and didnt make the switch to APBT ?

 

Im not printing hear say...check out issues of THE SPORTING DOG JOURNAL, PITBULL NEWS, of the late 1970s-early 1990s...and you will seen Im right about the low % of wins by Staffords

 

Interesting, i'd heard of some matches were staffs had done pretty good even if not the winner against pits, some would say they gave the pitbull all he wanted, i suppose that could be one mans opinion in his eyes, or if the stafford happened to be that 1 in 100, maybe a staff that would have out classed the other staffs around at the time? but I trust your opinion

 

in some cases, but one perticular man I know and trust moved into serious pitbulls and had some demons, he recon'd the pitbull was better generally for sure but if the right stafford came along he'd hold his own often suprisingly well

 

which thread is that active irish. i can assure you i haven"t stolen your words. j

 

I don't doubt you for a second, i've personally lost contact with quite a few men who were up to their eyes in the game 20 years or so ago, i've recently made contact with a couple of them who still keep dogs but not the maniacs they had back then, myself I always kept staffords, had one battle cross staffxEBT and one full bred EBT (working type), I visited with the working dog men often and in the earliest days i sampled a session involving one of my own dogs, I personally was too soft hearted for it, I wouldn't keep a dog that wasn't a good specimen or that wouldn't stand his ground against any other dog but I couldn't match them, even if winning id feel sorry for the losing dog and even took a losing dog home with me one time and re-homed him as a pet after he recovered, but i never judged my friends and i valued them very much as men who knew their dogs and a good place to look when I or anyone who asked me wanted a dog.

 

It was in "Todays Staffords are a shame" (i think) I don't think you stole my words, i think you made a very valid observation, you're right about the possibility why people who kept staffords did favor them, size would have been an issue because of available space for sure.
I think todays show staffords size was no accident also, you see women of maybe 5ft - 5ft3in weighing 8 - 10 stone walking staffords, there's no way a girl could handle my stafford if he took the notion to confront a dog while out walking, but in shows you have the Ladies and Children handling them?
I'm all for everyone owning one but the reality is if you're not strong enough yourself you'll not be able for a good stafford and definately not a Pitbull?

 

no worries pal. just got me scratchin me head.
as to the women thingy, theres a nice young woman just moved in 3 doors down from me with 2 staffords both at least 40lbs , i"d like to be there when the local psycho tom cat makes an appearance,lmao.
i"ll have to get chatting to her shes a looker,lol
there are at least 35 staffords on my street now of various quality and we have mentioned trying to get a group(ish) photo.

 

Evolution? The dogs havnt grown opposable thumbs or changed that much from those early dogs sent over! The early pit dogs look much the same as the top game dogs now. Show staffords and show am staffs are a lot different to any of the early dogs, but game pitbulls havnt changed all that much

 

Your new neighbour better learn to belly slide on tarmac hehe, but i'm sure you won't mind helping her up if she's a good looker, 35 staffords in one street? you definately should try getting a photo of them all.

 

you're 100% right, i posted the video and response because I was asked why I said pitbulls were being bred bigger in the states and the video shows that they are, even though the type their breeding is a disaster except for those still breeding them as they were from day1

 

You said the right word "ASSUMING" lol. But I will play a game since there seems to be no modern proof. I own three decades of Game Dog magazines that reported matches, and rarely has a full blood Staff won against an APBT that was reported. Alot of people that matched dogs were in it to win it, so if Staffs were better, then they would have been buying and breeding Staffs! No hard math there, its that simple.
If you were really aware of the gamedog situation over here you would know that while there are 60 pound + APBT's, most are not looked at as gamedogs. The majority of contests are/were 55 pound and under, and the majority being in the 40's.
Since I only recall great dogs that were exported from the U.S. why dont you enlighten us as to what great dogs were imported to the U.S. (and please dont go back to Colby lol)! Just look at that ugly Colby's Galtie (sp?) dog, and you will see where the Americans improved the dogs and thus earning the right to call them American! Oh yeah, I'll be waiting to read about those 3+ hour Staffs lol (no I will not because I know the truth already).

People's heritage is not the same as nationality, so please stop that comparison.

 

Boomerang, Zebo, Nine Milli, there are three off the top of my head that were Gr Ch that were matched around 40 and under lol. This would take pages to list all the Gr Ch and Ch in the 40 and under range lol