staffies and pitbull's history

Incidently the two breeds were one and the same a hundred years or so ago just bred down on two different lines for different purposes , some other breeds might have been added by unscrupolous breeders in the past but basically they have the same foundations

 

well said, a right at the start a pitbull was any shape or size as long as it was game and performed

 

Might as well copy and be ready to paste that post for few people on here.

 

You must not realize that I do in fact understand there are only few staffs left in the world, and my point is there are only few left for a reason! If they were competitive with the top performing combat dogs, then there would be more pf them around that is the whole point!
And to anyone who has stated a Staff or an APBT has came back into the United States and did win, please feel free to post any real documentation of either breed that came back to the United States and won over known great Chs or Gr Chs. Not Joe nobody, and not 60-100 years ago. I mean modern 1960-?? and over what is considered to dog men and some examples would be STP, Crenshaw, Bill, Ratliff, and so on.
It truly appears to me that for whatever reason, you are the one that feels you must defend the Staff for whatever reason. It was a part of the foundation of the APBT. It was a good badger dog, I guess as I know nothing about hunting badger. It has beaten game bred APBTs on a few occasions, but no top caliber APBT or dogman. But thats all. There seems to be a problem on this thread with making excuses whether Staffs were kept underground, the breeders sold all of their stock (to go with APBTs lol), to the Japanese not knowing what good combat dogs were. So, its everyone elses fault, and not the breed's fault.

 

I am not making any excuses at all, I am trying to get through the point that the Staffs where used for other purposes up until fairly recently. You either don´t understand it, or you do not want to understand it.

So, let´s make a comparison that you might get. At the same time as CH Jeep, it was a dog in the US by the name of CH Paladin. By many Paladin was claimed to be a better dog than Jeep, according to what I heard the owners of Paladin also tried to hook into Jeep without success. It is also said that Paladin produced very good dogs in the breeding’s that were made. Where are all these Paladin dogs today? According to your logic, there should have been more Paladin dogs than Jeep dogs! And according to your own logic, the only reason there are less Paladin dogs is that they must have had lesser quality than the Jeep dogs.

Jeep also had a brother known as CH Charlie, according to many, including James Crenshaw; he was a better dog than Jeep! Since there are more Jeep dogs, than Charlie dogs around- I guess they must have been lying according to your logics?

I could name more than one dog that was born and bred elsewhere that went back and whooped ass in the US. But what is the purpose? I am not into this pissing contest! Good dogs are where you find them! Good dogs don´t know where they were born, they don´t know if we label them as Staffs or Pit Bulls or whatever.

You seem to have a very big need to argue on this board that the Americans have the absolute best dogs in the world. Well I never said they didn’t, I just said there are good dogs in many places you never heard of. In the years to come these dogs will establish themselves even further, and this debate will repeat itself.

 

Feel free to post proof as to what I have said is wrong wildchild lol. Guess I'll be entertained with what song and dance you will have, because there IS NO PROOF other than Staffs were part of the foundation, and game bred Staffs are a rare breed now lol. And again they are rare for a reason! Do I dislike Staffs, no, Is everything I have presented fact, yes. Am I the one to blame for game bred Staffs being rare, no.
What size violin should do you need while more excuses for the breed comes from you?? Let me guess it will be "I heard", "I know", or "old great Staff breeders told me" lol. What exactly about Staffs is trying to be proven here? The point started out as how Americans took the Staff and made it a better combat dog. No one has posted ANY proof of a Staff beating ANY known ch or Gr Ch APBT or a top dogman inside the United States in recent history! And damn, even those I listed did not win against other top dogmen in the United States all the time,but not even one single Staff beat any of them! If any top dogman would have seen these great Staffs that could have won over other APBTs, then they would have probably been buying, matching, and breeding those great game bred Staffs. But guess what, you dont see any Staffs owned by them for a reason, and the reason is no Staffs showed to be good enough!
So, feel free to ignore my replies as its very clear there is NO REAL PROOF LMAO! At least ontherocks posted 3 links, now whether its a credible resource is really open to debate. Not just because the author of the articles is also the owner of the web site, but also because it plainly states in one of the articles that the Staffs were fighting every damn weekend and winning. I've never heard of any dogman in the past pitting a dog every weekend, not even for rolls. They need time to recover, and 6 days simply wasnt enough!

 

I don't think they all sold out and bought pitbulls. If they had good stafford stock from lines close to the original pitdogs then they already had pitbulls. They were just called staffords so as the law wud stay off their backs, the staffords everyone seems to be referring to is the show shite, a real working stafford wud be hard to distinguish next to a working pitbull as they are much the same

 

Very well said! I'm not here to try and sway anyone to getting an APBT over a Staff, as it is indeed every ones personal decision. But it appears that Staff owners feel they have something to prove over APBT owners. There was a place to prove such things, and maybe 50 years from now it will be legal to prove it again, so game Staff breeders dont give up on your breed!
With that said, I will only post to this thread in response to any verifiable proof in which I have asked for. This going back and forth arguing over ghost shit and speculation has gotten old.

 

for a guy who clearly did not know the difference between an amstaff and a sbt, you surely can type things you know very little of. Im gonna pretend you had or have good apbt's, right, but i wanna ask you now how many staffords have you owned? a breed you publicly stated you had no idea about, but still keep arguing against it? makes no sense to me. even if any will mention names of stafford winners you will still have no clue of the subject. i had apbt's of certain lines but that doesnt give me the right to talk about other blood i did not own just because of what people say, its called hearsay.

 

hey c
i seem to remember something about your virgil dog,at an apbt show , was there a thread on here ?

 

it was one stafford bitch i bred last may. she beat few apbt at an adba show in california with just 6 months of age

 

an up on the leg brindle bitch ?

 

I went with the proven breed, not speculation and hear say. If the Staff had proven to be a better breed at what interested me, then I would be typing about Staffs now lol. I do my research before getting anything, and 20+ years ago no one was talking about Staffs in the arena. As reference there was un biased literature available back then in one book in particular "The World of Fighting Dogs", by Dr. Carl Semencic, and while he does not rate most breeds, he does rate the number 1 fighting dog, and that was the APBT. And since there is no proof offered to dispute that statement and plenty to support, then its easy to see which breed I went with.
But, I will tell you and anyone now, dont expect me to be posting pics of my dogs on the Net lol...

 

you still have no clue about staffordshire bull terriers aka staffs, staffies, staffords. own few, work them, then you could probably write something worth reading positive or negative from your own experience

 

yes she is. is an almost solid brindle bitch

 

i have not thought about it to be fair but some good ones have certainly been sent back to the states from other countries.also some highly rated dogs have been sent from the states to other places and been made to look ordinary by local dogs, it is a fact that there are good dogs all over the world now.

what about the ch john wayne dog he was sent from England to fat bill and won over james crenshaw & captain america.

 

No doubt there are good dogs all over the world now, as there should be! With the decline of dogmen in the United States, it only makes sense that dogs over seas get better. most great dogmen in the United States have been prosecuted by the law, or were smart enough to bail out during the course of the witch hunts.You listed one dog that that came from England and I dont have time to research it now. So, I will give you that 1, but how was that dog bred?

 

Never mind I seen it was bred from American stock. And the article plainly states that there had only previously been "one man that had ever brought a dog over from England and won in modern times" kind of supports what I've been saying!

http://www.game-dog.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10928&d=1283959996

 

he was bred in the uk. from dogs sent from the states a few generations earlier, not sure what you are getting at, you asked for an example of dogs sent from other countries that beat a named dog or kennel in the states, i gave it.

john wayne
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=372242

he defeated this dog, that was very highly rated.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=13882

i could also list quite a few well known dogs sent from the states to europe that when tried were bested by local dogs and that includes champions & grand champions , but what is that proving, its all a bit childish.

 

feel free to post some of these well known dogs from the states that quit in Europe. Were any of them on the cover of and of the game dog magazines in the states? Probably not.. Hate to break the news, but the great APBTs were not sold by fast lane dogmen lol. Maybe offspring.....