something to think about

<hr> May-June 1989 (SDJ)



Recently during a phone conversation with Br*****y Jack , I expressed my idea on writing this article , he expressed i should go for it , so here we are.
Some will agree with the contents , some will not , so goes the dog game.
I would imagine that more articles or conversations on gameness has transpired over the years , than grains of sand at the beach. We've all heard that one mans wealth is another mans junk , so it is with the dog men , one mans cur is another mans gamedog.


Once after a match i had a little dog that went over the two hour mark into a champion , on his turf.
My dog lost , took the count. We lost him during the night . But immediately after the show some upcoming dogmen , who lost a tidy sum on their wagers , came over to our vehicle and offered the use of a handgun so we could dispose of our cur.. A dog just moments earlier was worth his weight in gold. He had done all he possibly could , making numerous scratches , the outcome questionable all the way , up to the last.. Now comes the fun part!

Would you rather breed to a dog that lost well over two hours even if he did take the count or would you rather breed to a champion that has won 3 , 4 , or ten times , matches in which he ran right through his competition in 10 , 20 , 30 minutes and was never in any trouble?
It's something to give serious thought to. There are certainly other factors to consider: the reputation of the family , the ratio of good calibre dogs that came out of the bloodline and the main item , consistency!

To me , the dog to breed to would be pretty clear . But most will breed to winners as no one likes to be associated with losers , quitters etc.. But the plain truth is that these dogs are in every pedigree under the sun. To the people that owned them , they were good dogs , to someone else , who never saw the dog in question perform , may very well have an entirely different opinion. And this is partly what keep the wheels of competition turning.

I've personally seen some of the greatest men to ever step into the square , and they all agree , that on a given day , under the right circumstances , that ANY and ALL will hang it up. Remember , we are talking about flesh and bone not a pre-programmed machine. I would suggest that healthcare be one of the foremost ingredients in making a dog come as game as possible. Bulldogs have a mind and respond to psycological treatment , whether it is positive or negative. I will take the dog i mentioned earlier , the one that lost to the champion in two hours , and whip the champion that only went the short haul and quite easily if the positive is on my side and the negative enviroment in the champions corner. The man behind the dog can make all the difference in the world on whether a dog shows well or poorlt , game or not , etc.. I've seen some real impressive dog care , finest food , health care conditions , mental attitudes , just an overall of nothing but a class act affair. A good family of dogs raised in this enviroment , will most often show consistently well.

On the other hand , I've seen some yards, and dogmen , that really give the game it's negative aspects. On these yards the feed is anything and everything , most often the cheapest available , when they do decide to feed their dogs. Little or no healthcare , abusing the dogs in any nunber of ways , rolling them when they are drunk or before they have time to heal from the last encounter. I'm sure you know the type. The odds are stacked against these people from showing a good dog with any consistency. When and if they ever show a good dog , it's only because the dog was a real exception to perform under thisatmosphere. Consider what a fine dog he would have been under the tutoring of the dog man who employs a posotive aspect.

I've seen many excellent prospects ruined by pure ignorance. So many potentially great dogs never make it because they are in the wrong hands. ALWAYS give 100% in shaping one for a show , never rely on the fact that your dog has a big heart and never shown a bad sign. Exhaustion has made many game dogs give it up , a car can't go without gas.

I personally don't like the word cur , it's too vague to describe the different degrees of gameness . At what point do you decide a dog is a cur?? 2Hrs , 3Hrs? , all day? , all night , after 6 opponents? I've seen dogs pack it in in 10 minutes and sometime later scratch on their last breath. It's complicated , intriguing , a real mystery. I've seen them go on sheer heart and sometime later pack it in after 10 minutes.


The truth is they will all quit on any given day.


( As written by the "SNAKEMAN")

 

Ain't that the truth! Amen!!

 

I've read that before and it still makes perfect sense. Thank you for posting..

 

bump bump bump bump it up, come people all the stupid crap you respond to i want some real dog talk and aint no one sayin nothing should i put a thread about where to find the hardest mouth cur, then ill get responses

 

up up up and away

 

Good post Boze. If only dogs could talk. I know that I have had many bad days in my life where I just didnt feel "right". I'm sure we all have. It's natural for us to let others know that we don't feel "right". You know, "good morning babe, how you feelin? Ahh, I feel like shit today, work is going to be rough". Again, if only dogs could talk. "Hey Bullyson, how you doing boy?..Shit Maurice, I feel awful man, something aint right inside". Lol, I know that sounds crazy but if only dogs could talk. With that being said, I breed to the Champion that got there with ease, over the dog that had a long night and stood the line. It does give us something to think about though. Thanks for posting.

 

This has been discussed over and over. I agree with a lot that the Snakeman has to say here, I wouldn't completely write off a dog because of one match but I wouldn't choose it over a similarly bred dog who absolutely wrecked his competition.

This is because the multiple time winner has proved himself to be a very capable bulldog vs the loser who didn't have all the tools. But I would breed to a dog that went the distance and came up short as long as he met my other criteria and worked with my program.

scenarios:
if i'm looking at two eli dogs, ones a loser that passed schooling with flying colors and ones a 4W that made the same grades then i'm picking the winner.

if i'm looking at an eli dog who is a 1xL but passed school with flying colors, comes from proven producers and his littermates/half siblings are producing then i'm going to give him a shot.

if its my own eli dog who is a 1xL but passed school with flying colors. I'm going to give him another look over. If after a bit of summer school he removes all doubt then he can stick around

 

sometimes the loosing dog looses not because he does not have all the tools sometimes his owner does not have all the tools. a lot of times in contract matches it shows who the better dogman is not the better dog. for example when mayfield went into pool hall red and red lost she was the better dog but mayfield was the better dog man you wanto to see who the better dog is take two champions right off the chain and you will have your answer and even then, there ae factors to consider, such as shelter, food and general care. there are many things one must consider when judging a dog and i believe the word cur is thrown around very litely

 

should be required reading, great post!
when breeding a dog that is a dominate performer u dont always know how much heart is inside. a complete bulldog is important but game is the base of a bulldog. if ur line needs a boost in gameness ur better off breeding the loser you are sure is deep game(or starting your line over lol)

 

Very good post when I first read it back in the late 80's nice post.Everyone that first starts out should read it.

 

Snakeman hit the nail right on the head . You only get out of a dog what you put into them .

 

bump this again

 

good read and some good advise in there

 

Good read, while I don't agree with the "every dog will quit" theory or there would be no such thing as a dead game dog or the plain fact that many dogs took plenty of punishment yet still never even thought of hanging it up, many times, through out history, as well as today. I suppose the believers of that theory are going to argue the point, well they just didn't quit that day blah blah blah, yeah ok, the key point is, they didn't quit under any circumstances they were placed in, if all dogs quit then gameness wouldn't be such a sought after trait........:rolleyes:
But some other points in that article are very good.

 

good point agk, thats another never ending argument lol

 

down to you as the manager to know the dog and although it cant talk should be able to make the call on if the dog is feeling ok imo. Many put in alot of hard work and on the day knowing the dogs not 100% dont want to give away a forefit and decide to go ahead. If you give the dog your all and as the manage know the dog is right and good in the situation then i see now reason for a quit. JMO

 

I agree with AGK but It's the handlers job to make sure your dog isn't dead game. Dead game isn't something to brag about. If you have ever had a dead game dog then then you screwed up. You killed a great dog and maybe even a better producer. You are that dogs manager and trainer. Know when to throw the towel in!

 

Absolutely, you should be your dogs advocate and know when they are in over their head, know the signs and know when to pick up before there isn't any bringing them back. Let them make a courtesy scratch if the other side agrees and call it a day. Nothing good comes from a dead game dog except braging about a dead dog that could of, would of, should of but didn't and IMO theirs nothing wrong with a loss, it's how they lose that matters i.e stand the lne, jumping the box, flat out lay down and quit or some dogs are just out classed by others but I would still breed to a loser that showd no bad signs while losing and I felt would click with what I had and of course I mean back in the day, you know, like pre 76.....

 

good post and thread thanks for the read ...

 

i don't like the idea of breeding to a dog that stood the line no matter how long it was on wood. so i would go with with the winner of X amount of hunts. i would rather take a chance of getting a freak like that then getting something that is from a known quiter. family avg is my top priority so adding a known quiter don't really help that out. and if i got just one offspring that was only half as good as the multi winner would be just fine by me.