some Corvino history

Again - Cant say what is true and not back than. I am not old enough to be there like many others. If people write books that are not correct, that defeats the purpose of it. Dont know what he knew about it, but it was supposedly visable in a litter or two he had.

So why do these other folks write this, to have people call them a story teller? disagree with it? Dont know. Ask them is all I can say.
Hope time and good spirit allow me to soon.

Glad you intorduced these old timers so we could have these dogs today. I commend you.

 

Frank no where near had the dogs as long as the Corvino people I introduced him too.
He wasn't around when those dogs were born. Nor did he see them.
Frank wasn't born when those dogs were alive.

Next time I'm over at UKC I'm going to get a copy of all the information from the litter of the Fly of Pamana and Bruce's Jerry. Who bred what, their signature, DOB and so on. I plan to do this on another breeding of the past.

I always got the information for free but now days people will call you lair even if you read it yourself. So if I have to pay for it, I will have the proof right with their signature so if it isn't true then we all will know who the lairs are. But I won't go by what some one else claims they saw, were told, think or some rumor some one else wrote.
I think that is the best way to address this.

 

Well that is a simple question to respond too.
Why did Going Light Barney, Ch. Rascal and many others?
That is the way the dogs are.
Soon as you think you have them figured out, they will fool you.
This is why old timers never liked to take out females because of the 4 stages of their reproductive cycle.

As for Frank why he wrote this I don't know, he didn't award titles. The dog was NOT recognized by Sporting Dog Journal as a grand champion or Register of Merit.

"As far as I know he was sold after his career ended to Iron Captain (Zoran) from Czech Republic."

BTW it wasn't the Czech Republic when I was over there.

I don't know why guys in Canada said he quit if he didn't.
IMO the quality of dogs in YU at the time was no where near the same as the dogs in Canada.
This is why people overseas were buying them from Canada and the US.

 

I almost missed this, I don't need to read it, Jerry wasn't a black and tan.
Frank never saw the dog. Frank wasn't alive or born until many years later.

 

Frank was misinformed but he fixed it the second time his book was in print.
I´ll ask arround and maybe there will be some further info of what happened back then, as I never heard of what you have been told!

Back then when Auclair´s Tom was imported these have been the beginnings in the Balkans.

Today I do think they are top notch!

 

Is this a red one ? (pictures of Jerry)
Nice pics. The better known pic of him shows a completaly different dog.
@Mallard. Feel free to send me some pics of your history collection.

 

Dont look to be a black and tan dog to me either, so that is that. I believe the subject was worth bringing up, because there is obviously a lot of confusion now, let alone back than. Thanks for showing the pictures for us to actually see.
Do people really think folks will not find out when they are not correct in their records?
This is why I asked. I noticed some info not jivin and investigated it.
Just another thing in the dogs, with two different stories.

 

That would be cool to see and would answer a lot of questions for people who want to know about things like this.
Until then, we can just sift through the history and talk to the people that were aroundif they still are.
Seems there are a lot of liers, or mis informed.

 

I.M. I have been asking around and no one ever heard of Tom curred out!
As you told that you´ve seen him in Ex - YU owned by a guy named Zoran could you be more precise?
See Iron Captain from Czech Republic was the last owner of him, at least to my knowledge and he purchased him some time after his retirement! Just want to shed some light to it!

 

i DONT KNOW WHICH tOM DOG HAD .AS HE HAD A FEW BUT THIS TOM DOG (BETTER KNOWN IN THE BALKANS AS YELLOW TOM) HAD NEVER STOPPED, HE DID LOSE HIS LAST THERE (BALKANS) TO ANOTHER TOM (AGAIN BETTER KNOWN THERE AS BLACK TOM, LOL) DEADGAME, THE PROBLEM WAS HIS OWNER (WHO HAD BOUGHT HIM FROM THE FELLOW WHO NOW OWNED CH BLACK TOM)
HAVE 4 KGS (ALMOST 9LBS) THATS A SMART MAN (ZORAN) ALSO LOST IN UNDER 3 MINS TO THE BOGGIE BOY DOG TOO, AGAIN HIS DOG DIED RIGHT THERE AND THEN IN UNDER 4 MINS, RARE AS IT SOUNDS IT IS A FACT.
YELLOW TOM DID NOT HAVE MUCH ABILITY BUT WHAT HE LACKED THERE HE MADE UP IN HEART, SURPRISING FOR A CARVER BRED DOG LIKE THAT..

 

First off let me clear the air , Iron Mike is a wealth of info, rarely has there been someone who knew bloodlines like he has and mostly about the Corvino blood.Personally I dont think there are many left today that know as much about "Bulldogs" in the USA & CANADA as this man and his family do...I have nothing but praise for a man (Family) who have accomplished what they have in the dogs. It is only fitting to listen and learn from him, regardless if you agree with his "opinions" This game was not made up on opinions or views but actions and he has shown that his are but plentiful in the breed we love so much.



OK Here I go...

I believe he may have mixed up the Tom dog as stopping, it is Black Tom's Sire that stop 2 times in 2 matchs and once with Little Milou where Piston had been matched and collected a forfeit (Sat night) and was then sold and was "rolled" the next day against Little Milou as he also out weighed a hog fat Milou and was in shape too.
He was all over the old dog for about 40-45 mins and then Milou (who had been taken right out of his chain and not even walked to empty out) was between his owners leg to scratch and started to crap and run at the same when he was released, when he hit Piston a dog yelped out and there was confusement on who cried, the inexperience of his owner to take him to roll so fast let the younger dog handle him as he had to go (in more ways than one) but once he let go, he was all over the Piston dog, they then switched dogs (handles) as Milous owner wanted to see his dog scratch as he loved watching him "sail" just b4 hitting the dog, and when he had piston between his legs he saw that he was not going to go on that scratch (they had scratched them about 5 times ) Well he told the other guy to let Milou go and little milou came flying across and now Piston was really protesting, they went about another 5 minbs and his owner said stop it cause he wanted to return him and he did not want him really banged up to the point he would not be taken back but Little Milou's owner said he wanted to scratch them one more time just to see "the sail" lol so he let Piston go and he just turned to the right of his legs and wanted nothing more to do with the roll any more this is when Little Milou's owner just pushed him from the rear all the way across and told the other fellow to let Milou go cause he was so pissed off at the cur who would have killed little milou so long as the dog was holding back on his stool and could barely go straight and his owner was saying this is not right something is wrong with him and he kept leaving him down longer and longer he was lucky that stupid mistake did not cost the dog his life so when he saw that the Piston dog quit straight up he went bonkers lol and just shoved him in Little Milous face for a few mins more.
The funny part to all this the next day he was talking w/Jean Louis who had sold the dog (and his son Black Tom ) telling him he stopped but he just loved that dog so much he took him back, months later while breeding Little Milou at his place (which produced Shellby that was given as a gift to Kreklijic cousin (he was the one who got the dog for Komany originally, along with the Sale of Tom, Yellow) he had set up to Match Piston again and was told he will stop, long story short he stopped again.
Bosse's reason. "He ate a bone a half hr b4" his son supposedly fed him a bone and that is what caused the dog to stop...he did not feel well. Fast Fwd, he matched him again ...against the same dog to prove his reasoning, U know the outcome. lol
He stopped again ....but a few mins longer..both around 30 mins. He did stop his own son, The Black Tom during one his matches and only 1 he ever won, I never understood how they could call Black Tom a Gr Ch cause he had stopped and also I feel that the right dog did not come along to make him stop again. My belief is if they stop once they will stop again...

 

Aside from Black toms ped being "watered down" its not even correct, His gr grandfather on the top bottomside (Bruno) who was from Dionne (a Dog trainer) never bred the dog as he had him as a pup sold him at 9 months old (I have his papers here if need be) and was never bred after that. Yes he may have been bred b4 that and had a litter U can say but that too is not possible as the litters registered to him have him being at lkeast 3 yrs old so U see thats IMPOSSIBLE, Dionne was a peddler he had no idea what a game dog was compared to a play dog. He trained attack dogs and all he knew is if it had GIROUX' name in the front of it he can sell it.......like most peddlers from Quebec have done.

 

MAPS thanks for clearing this up as it is more than interesting!
I do believe that Iron Mike has forgotten more than most of us will ever get to know! And I do have deep respect for him.
Black Tom was labeled Gr. Ch. and R. O. M. because of false info given to Frank as he was collecting info on his book!
I asked Zinetti recently and he didn´t know of Black Tom being a quitter as now in fact he wasn´t!
So it was about his sire Piston and this clears things up.
new and that´s always welcome!

MAPS about the question if the breeding is correct I would love to see them if its possible to post them!

I. M. , MAPS again thanks for this interesting topic!

 

I agree that I.M. is a wealth of Bulldog info on this side of the pond I have seen some of his dogs in action also in the 80's and was impressed with them just as well but as for information few have the knowledge and library as he does.

Zinitti for me is the I.M of the Balkans in fact we were just yesterday talking as I will see him soon as well and always enjoy his stories about dogs there.

As for Piston being a dog that stopped, its a fact and in the SDJ let alone a cur.
Either way now his name and blood is so way far off the Balkan dogs that I dont really think it matters, sure if its good dog all it could do is bolster the peds lineage but they have bred so many dogs down from Black Tom that He (Tom) has become the pivotal foundation dog of those lines.
He could have been half Doberman, half Lab and it would not matter now...lol

I dont know what U mean by posting the ped, I dont know how to place it here as a pic but if U like U can give me an idea what U want me to do and I can clearly try to help.
MAPS

 

I actually had time to ask the Author about this question I had this weekend at the Iowa Show. It was a pleasure to talk to the man and show under him. He really knows his confirmation and was very detailed in how he picked the winners!
Very consistant!

 

MAPS greet Zinetti from me! He´s a good guy!
About Tom, well I never had a dog with him in the ped but I appreciate all that helps to learn something new!
See this part of the game dog world is as interesting as the dogs themselves, the history behind the different bloodlines!
That´s why I also appreciate the stuff Zinetti is putting out!
Also Iron Mikes stuff is always great education!

Greets!

 

Did every one miss this? The point was the dog quit in Canada. I guess most of you don't know Zoi or the owner of Rapid Roy-Pinky & the Brian, or Can/Am Boys-Rum Crooks.
Or the many other who has stated this.
It was made clear the one Zoran had did quit whether it is "Yellow Tom" "Black Tom" "Pink Tom" what ever.
Now who was it in Canada you spoke too? Just what I thought, no one. At least no one who was there.
This all was discuss on Online Pedigrees.
Ask the owner of Ch. Booger, he might know more about it too.

BTW dognhold, U need to be careful what forums you visit, as in the one hosted by a cop.

 

Highly possible, But as for Tom (The Yellow one the Zoran owned) did NOT STOP IN CANADA.
If he stopped in the Balkans I can not say, nor know of. But while he was in Canada and owned by his owners (First was Shaugnessy, (David) who was good friends with Zoi also) this is how Zoi got the dog after (David's) passing who ended up having it go to his partner and then he was sold to Krekilijic (excuse the spelling mistake,lol) cousin who picked up the dog for him ...Now if someone took the dog off Zoi's place (or later at J.L's place where they had him) rolled him, stopped him and brought him back and said nothing till today, that is very possible. Eitherwise I don't know of any other time someone could say he "stopped"
Even when Zoi had left Canada and his partner was using any one he could find to "work" the dog for him (he did not like to work them) one thing was for sure No one was able to stop him worked, or off the chain.
Been there. Seen that. Done that !

 

Iron Mike,I have a small question for you.There is so much false information about Corvino dogs .Some mistakes are just honest and some are plain lies.Do u think you can find the time to write a tribute about a man that we are all talking about that has been dead for about 40 years? Maybe you could put in there how he got started with the dogs?It would be a nice read,a tribute to a great dogman,and just plain knowledge for us all.Thanks,Mike

 

That would be a nice thing! So I.M. if you find any time and patience to write an article about him / his dogs that truly would be an awesome read!