Ruined??

And here's where I lose all focus...

I'm assuming these dogs you "rolled" were in the past.

I'm assuming that you have wised up and no longer subject these dogs to such practices.

I'm assuming that in this day and age you understand the state the APBT is in, and that you would never do anything to attribute to their demise.

Still, where is the compassion in your reply, where is the remorse? Where is the understanding that what you were partaking in was wrong? Why is it respected, glorified even, that you used to do these things?

End rant.....one last question..

To cull a dog....does that mean what I think it means?


Jaime

 

cull to remove from the stock. Just like you cull bad fruit. remove it and dispose of it. Kind of like liberals like doing with babies except faster and less tramatic.

The only reason we can't roll our dogs any more is because of humaniacks sticking their nose in business that didn't pertain to them. That is a major fault of many people cry about animals and don't give a shit about children. Bass ackwards. It is not culling and selling to crap owners that put the APBT in the state it is in not those of us that have been in this breed a very long time culling bad apples. It is often pet people or greasy punks that mess it up for every one that does good for the breed. Oh lets let red play at the park oh shit Red just killed spiffy oh shit and red is taking out the next. Then byb breed the shit out of the dogs that should be culled and sell pups to who ever and any jack ass off the street with said price or what ever they haggle to. I would rather cull a dog than give it to some nitwit to raise. I would rather all dogs that hit shelters get culled because lets face it those that let their dogs run around free and not leash or chain the dog make matters worse and we get the blame for them. Dope dealers fighting dogs also mess things up. Liberals need to stay the hell out of our business and stop assuming stuff. Just because a dog meets the long end of the barrel doesn't mean the person doing his job doesn't have compassion. Whould you rather that dog meet the same fate after a month eating half rations in some stinking shelter or beaten, run over or used bait by some looser peice of shit to train his bluff ass cur dogs. I don't think so. You sure don't want the dogs in the wrong hands, don't want them in shelters, don't need Human agressive or retarded and a list of genetic faults out there on the streets or around other healthy animals. NO you have to cull them for the well being and safty of all. And yes that means to remove that dog perminantly. Euthanized, gone, dirt napped and all that. Why I bet Old Timer has allot of compassion. Remorse is for some one that did something wrong and he never did. Cheating on a spouse is wrong.

Jaime you need to spend about a year or two out in the country on a real working farm. Then this will all be more clear.

 

I am probably way off point on this board but I will call it like I see it. Depending on your definition of "Prospect" could make me rethink this, but I know what my definition of "Prospect" is and I will answer accordingly.

Bottom line is if a dog gets off a chain in my yard, there had better be a dead dog or one that is physically unable to continue. Otherwise it gets culled. The dog curred and regardless of hatever happens in it's life that will always haunt it. It is a shame it happened so early (13 months) but I have culled for less.

Very respectfully,
PSD

 

I don't think that there is any arguement to the prospect aspect. I am not going to argue the cull. I am an advocate of a culling process as well. But it isn't my call on another yard. I can only give advice and my point of view. Deranged as some may see it.

 

First thing that needs to happen here is some proper set ups for keeping game dogs. If she really has "accidentally" gotten to other dogs before maybe you should step back and try to figure out why. I know accidents will happen, i have had one in the past 3 years or so, but it was my mistake. A proper chain set up is the safest way to keep bulldogs period. If properly done, checked on, & maintained they will rarely fail - unless of course you live in an area where you can't keep them on chains in which case i suggest moving if you want to keep the dogs safely.

 

Thanks for the input guys. I fell a little behind on the thread, so I will try to catch up.

Old Timer: Thank you very much for your advice!

Southeastern: She is doing fine. A little sore, swollen & scabby, but fine.

Lovebeingme: Just b/c Old Timer rolled or even matched dogs, that doesn't make it wrong. And I found his reply very compassionate & I think he has nothing to be remorseful about. If you knew these dogs, you'd know they love to do what they were created to do. Please don't fall into that PETA bull about the dogs having to be "made" to fight. This is a complete fallacy. Now some ppl out there today ARE cruel & do make dogs fight, but they do it b/c they got the idea from - guess who? PETA! But no old timer or any serious dogman ever "makes" a dog fight.

Attila: You are so right. How can anyone worry over a dog being culled when thousands of innnocent babies are being culled everyday for no other reason they they exist? IMO this country needs to get it's prorities straight.

PSD: Thanks for your insight. However, I prefer to do things as the dogmen of old did & most dogmen of old (at least the ones I know of anyway) would not cull a promising pup w/o giving it a second chance. So many of these "young guns" will cull a youngster at the drop of a hat & who knows how many good dogs were lost b/c of it.

Loneshark: You are focusing on the wrong subject.

OK, I think that's everyone ... again, she appears to be doing fine, the swelling is going down - I think she can actually see now! lol. She is eating, drinking, using the restroom properly & walking well on the leash.

 

We are just going to have to disagree on this one.

First, there is no way I'd survive on a farm in the country.:p

I disagree that it's "humaniaks" that are butting there nose in.....rolling a dog means inflicting pain and injury on said animal. That is WRONG, no if ands or buts about it. Anyone who claims to love their dog, and allows, even ENCOURAGES their dog to be subjected to pain has something wrong going on in that noggin.

I'm not sure why children were brought up in your post, but that's a gross exageration. I love dogs, and I love my kids.....I don't see how the two are related.

I never said it was any "old dogmen"s fault that the APBT is in the state that it is. I said, rolling dogs in this day and age would attribute to their demise. In the general public doing things like that are not acceptable, and it doesn't just make the person look bad, it demonizes the dogs.

I agree that it is pet people and "greasy punks" lmao (my little brother would fight you over those words, lol) and thugs who think it's cool to have a mean dog. Those people should be culled in my opinion, but the attitude of it's okay to plactice barbaric acts with these dogs doesn't help things.

Euthanizing a human aggressive pit bull is absolutely the right thing to do. I've done it myself with a past foster. Now culling a dog because your set-up failed and the dog didn't kill another dog is a stupid reason to have the dog "meet the other end of a barrel". You take on the responsibility of your dogs, you don't just throw them away when they dissapoint you in some way.

"Why I bet Old Timer has allot of compassion. Remorse is for some one that did something wrong and he never did. Cheating on a spouse is wrong."

Wow.....here is where you will never get me to change my mind. I can be open-minded on alot of things, but to say he has done nothing wrong is ludicrous. To me, God has a special place in hell for people that abuse animals, and to me that's exactly what rolling, fighting your dogs is.

Jaime

 

Not trying to sound like a "Know it All" but I assure you that my opinion is NOT the remark of a "young gun". I have been around for quite some time, been involved with many of what you call "Old Dogmen" and I was schooled, first hand, by some of the best this game had to offer back in it's hey day.

The problem with the "Young Guns" is that they don't pull the trigger quick enough. They are not nearly as particular with the standard some of us grew up with.

And please do not take this as a personal attack, but even a "promising pup" ( I do agree this was a young dog that had too much put on it) that was curred doesn't get a second chance. 4 yrs down the line, doesn't change the fact that it curred. You have to be able to stand back and "Call a Spade a Spade".

R. Duhon culled a ROM on his yard due to it curring in a kennel accident.

Again, this is my opinion, and to each his own. I just took a slight exception to being referred to as a "Young Gun".

To help with my point I will invite you to another board of which I am a member where more of the purest ideals are present. Present this same instance and see the different reaction. PM me if interested in the link.

Respectfully,
PSD

 

PSD: Forgive me. I didn't know you were an elder in the game. Your enthusiam belied your age. (No disrespected intended by that BTW.)

Jamie: Of course you would survive in the country! I am city bred through & through & after 10 years of living in what I consider to be the country, city life seems a bit stifling to me.

And we too will have to agree to disagree. Dog fighting has been going on in this country for over 100 years. We had no problems - the pit bull was kept in the hands of responsible ppl, there were no pit bulls running at large, there were no pit bull attacks & the dog was kept to standard. Pre '76 we had none of the problems we see today. NONE.

Then the humaniacs stepped in. Post '76 the pit bull is getting banned all over the country. It is now the dog of choice for drug dealers & cruel street rollers who fight the dogs to the death, beat them, feed them gunpowder etc. All ideas they got BTW from humaniac central - i.e. PETA. And it is also becoming a deformed shadow of it's former self thanks to bully breeders.

We went over 100 years w/ no problem while dog fighting was legal. Then it becomes illegal & in 30 years the breed has gone down the toilet. That tells me that humaniacs - not dogmen - are reponsible for the breed's demise.

And what is this about rolling/matching dogs being cruel?? What about the retriever who has to go out in freezing water over & over to fetch ducks all day long? Or what about the racehorses who are doped so they can run on an injury? Or what about greyhounds who live their entire lives in tiny crates only to be put down after they are no longer winning? Or my personal favorite - what about the coonhound who runs down a terrified coon, only to get his nose chewed off or his eye gouged out of it's socket? That's all OK, but dog fighting isn't? Give me a break.

And as Attila said - where are the "Oh, that's cruel" crowd when innocent babies are having their skulls punctured & their brains sucked out while being born? Where are they when kids are getting beaten or starved? Where are they when little girls & boys are being forced by adults to engage in sexual acts against their will?

Oh that's right, they're on message boards fighting for the rights of supposed "abused" pit bulls.

Gag me.

Jamie, these dogs are only doing what comes naturally, just like other breeds created by man do. But no one wants to stop rabbit hunting b/c a beagle can get hurt by running onto the highway after a rabbit. No one wants to stop bear hunting even though a bear dog can be picked up by the bear & chomped in half. No one wants to stop hog hunting, even though a hog can gut a hog dog & leave him w/ his intestines spilled all over the ground.

Furthermore, while on the subject of hunting, you can tell me dog fighting is cruel & hunting isn't? Rabbit, deer or other game are chased ruthlessly by dogs, terrfied & running for their lives until some hunter puts a bullet in it? THAT'S alright, but dog fighting is cruel?? At least in a dog match both participants are willing to be engaged in the endevour!

Forgive me should I seem passionate about the subject, but I am. It just twists my tail to see someone cry "Oh, it's so cruel!" when firstly, they usually have no first hand experince w/ the sport & secondly, there are much more important things - things such as the mass infant murder & the rampant child abuse in our country - that we could be focusing on.

JMHO ... :rolleyes:

 

Well damn, i'm glad that u got this out before i had a chance to type something up for her previous ignorant response, amen to everything u just said. Rep points to u

 

Thanks. And again, I apologize should I have gotten a little carried away. But being condemned by someone who knows little to nothing about that which they are condemning makes me a little crazy.

 

I really don't like that we are discussing the process of testing and rolling dogs in the public forum. Can't we keep this in PM's? I mean, random people will long on here and read this, how many people do we know go ahead and try this stuff on their own? We always like to blame humane groups for putting these ideas in the influental person's head, but here we are posting instructions, for what I feel is a Headline from Hell... "Idiots sicked several dogs on one to "test" it, as mentioned in a Pit Bull forum on the Internet."

 

My responses are in purple.

 

Although I agree there are far worse things going on than culling animals. I have to stand up for people who feel that some things are cruel. I personally understand culling, etc. But I don't like the "priorities" debate. Because no one can save the world, we all have different priorities (like some people spend lots of $ on their dogs instead of fixing the car, or whatever) and it's no one's place to say what is what. I also think we are all in charge of what we do. And this is a dog forum, not a murderer/capital punishment, or child abuse forum, so I find everyone's feelings are warranted. If you can put their hearts at ease... all the better. I just think people have the right to feel compassion for animals, and not get a lecture about starving children, because I'm sure they feel compassion in that area too.

 

Well, I kinda understand both points of view. When I started out, I felt similiar to Jaime. I felt it was wrong to fight dogs. And babies being killed, abused, starved,etc. is VERY different from the subject at hand. I believe those who argue "for the animals" probably fight against abortion and such too. Pro life, regardless of what type of life it is...that's what I'd think atleast. Hunting is very different from dog fighting. A lot of people eat what they hunt. That's survival, it's a little different to me. I felt like people only rolled dogs for their own personal enjoyment. Which is the same as a racing horse or greyhound......I felt like it was the owner who benefits and not the animal. However, after I joined this forum.....and after reading, researching, and just plain chattin' with other folks....I feel differently now.
"At least in a dog match both participants are willing to be engaged in the endevour!"

That is what made me see things differently. It's that real dog people are not forcing these dogs to do anything they do not want to do. If the dog curs, they cull it. This is the same for other breeds as well, they love to do what they were bred to do. The owners are not torturing the dogs, they are not being mean to them. So now, I feel like to each his own. It's not my business what goes on in someone else's yard....just like it's none of their business what I do with my dogs. There are other things, such as BSL, to focus on. If we lose sight of that and argue against each other, then eventually none of us will even have any APBTs (or American Bullies, AmStaffs, or any type of bulldog for that matter) to even argue about.

 

Jaded: I agree that the worst thing for the pit bull was their flood into the public market. What I don't understand was, why did it happen? :confused:

And, yes, PETA aren't the only ones, but they are the most prominent.

And I agree, if you talk to certain people they will tell you any animal sport is inhumane. I have heard they are even trying to outlaw eight pulling in the UK.

Perhaps I just do not see it where I am from here hog hunting is encouraged as they are a pest species that is ploriferating at an alarming rate. But I can see why some ppl would want to ban it.

And I say there are a few sports in which the animal wants to compete. Many race horses & greyhounds live for the race, just as our APBT live for combat. But when it comes to animal vs. animal, dogfighting is the ONLY sport in which both combatants are there willingly.


Chyna: You make some good points, but we will have to differ concerning hunting. While most hunters do consume what they harvest, the hunt itself is for the pleasure of the hunt. Since the advent of the grocery store, it is the very rare case indeed where a man has had to hunt to survive.


Riptora: We all think some things are cruel. For example, I think crush flicks are incredibly cruel & if I met anyone who watched one, produced one or acted in one I'd belt the pee-water out of them & give them a stomping of their own.

But I think we do have to have priorities. To use another example, if there were a puppy & a toddler both in the street & there is truck hurtling toward them. You can only save one. Which would you choose? Most of us would choose the todder b/c we place a greater value (i.e. we have put a priority) on human life over animal life.

Same here. It just galls me to no end to hear someone complaining about the "cruelty" of matching "innocent" dogs when there are innocent children out there suffering. Why if they truly care about suffering & cruelty inflicted on innocents, why aren't they out there fighting for the rights of children? Are not children much more valuable than dogs?

But they don't. Instead most focus on harassing those who honor the past of our breed instead of helping a life much much more valuable than any dog's. To me eliminating the abuse of children should come first. Then maybe we can work on eliminating cruelty to animals. But to put animals in front of children? I can't see that. But that is what they do.

Again, JMHO ...

 

Allot of times I disagree with you, but this aint one of them, Great post!!

 

Thanks. But I am sad to hear you disagree w/ me a lot. I thought we were of the same opinion on several subjects. Guess not. lol.

 

Probably agree on more than not. Some folks say I have tunnel vision, hard headed, etc. LOL

 

lmao, I have never been accused of having tunnel vision, but I have been many times been accused of being hard headed. Perhaps we ARE more alike than not!