raw feed

The reasoning behind being careful when feeding both kibble and raw together is they digest at different rates and can upset the stomach.

Where this would become a problem would be - In breeds that are particularly susceptible to bloat or gastrointestinal issues or dogs who are just beginning a raw diet.

If you are just starting your dogs on a RAW diet, I wouldn't recommend feeding the meat and kibble together just as a precaution. Especially if you are new to it and don't know what to expect. Better to be safe then sorry, I wouldn't want to pay the vet bill for bloat problems..especially since once your dog bloats once..if they survive, it will likely happen again.

If you are going to feed pork, freeze it first or cook it before fed. There has been a lot of controversy as far as that goes, mainly because some cuts of pork have a higher fat content then other meats (which you should be trimming off, some people don't and feed it for long stints of time and then end up with a pacreatic problem..extra fatty tissue should be cut off of ALL meat, not just pork) another problem was the amount of bacterial infections/parasites found in free ranging pork that was not raised on antibiotics...which is what a lot of RAW feeders buy..while it's never bad to support your local farmers and non-hormoned/not over vaccinated animals--make sure you know what you are buying and take the proper precautions before feeding it to your dog.

 

It's mainly just the humans preference and what seems to work well for the dog. A lot of people believe that just the meat/organs/and bones are not a complete diet and feel the need to use veggies/fruits. While I personally don't believe it to be true, I do know a handful of dogs that do just fine on a diet consisting of meat/veggies/and fruits..So I say whatever floats your boat. I just don't feel like making things that complicated.

 

so if your sayin u dnt knw why ppl put fruit and veggies in a raw feed and say a wild dog doesnt eat em but then u trim the fat from the meat which a wild dog woul eat lol

 

The fat content is much lower in a wild animal than a commercially raised meat animal.

 

Dogs are not obligate carnivores. Don't let their order fool ya'.:cool:

 

dogs are in fact omnivores and the domestic dogs make up is no different than a wild dog. except man chooses witch dog to put over his bitch. and in the wild it is the most dominant male in the pack that mainly produces with the females. ( for example ) a fox kills a lamb it will mainly eat its stomach contents first because it grazes on grass witch the lamb has chewed on , it then can digest it better and get the nutrients it needs.

 

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html

http://www.pinnaclepetsupply.com/omnivor.htm

quote:The oldest dog in the world was in fact a raw fed australian cattle dog x stafford cross that lived in the Australian outback. He ate wallaby, kangaroo and emu as his major source of food. :unqoute

http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html

interesting, from a quick google I ascertained that the majority are saying dogs are Essentially carnivores.:rolleyes:

[SIZE=+1]The dog is a true carnivore, and should be fed accordingly. That is a scientific fact,notwithstanding industry propaganda to the contrary.
From a nutritional standpoint, carnivores are at the top of the food chain, even above human beings, in the richness and quality of their dietary requirements.

In short - carnivores only thrive when they consume diets that are structured as Nature intended: high in the best quality animal protein and fat, rich in vitamins and minerals, low in carbohydrates and fibrous materials, and devoid of plant-based protein.

Despite the fact that plant-matter, particularly in large quantities, is contraindicated in the feeding of carnivores, it nevertheless permeates industry rations because of the role it plays in industry profitability.

Industry, in fact, quite openly admits that it is not producing rations for carnivores, but rather for omnivores, because that is how it characterizes the dog. [unquote]
[/SIZE]

 

interesting? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_feeding

 

During this time of year I set dogs under the apple trees, and around the berry bushes so they can eat as much as they want. Plus, it helps keep the yard clean and the dogs don't seem to be as interested in grass right now. Dogs are, and have always been opportunists. Dogs, especially wild dogs will not only eat fruit, but also herbivore dung and the stomach contents of prey,...which often contain fruit, vegetables and grasses in varying levels of digestion. Be practical, be informed be open-minded when doing a thing. Just because there is ridiculous propaganda/approaches on both sides does not mean they are not regular folks doing it some way in the middle. I am one of those. I feed raw most of the time. However, I also feed dry when necessary. I have experienced negative results when combo feeding my personal dogs, and know others who have had similar negative results. I know of people who add ground meat to their dogs' kibble with little or no ill-effect. However, bone-heavy, whole meat "BARF type" meals combined with most grain/meal-heavy kibbles do not work well long-term for me or those I know.

As for pork, I have used pork. The dogs love it. However, as with the wild meats/fish I use in my dogs' diets, I make sure I keep them in the deep freeze for a few weeks before thawing and feeding. When I first got here, pork/organs was the only thing I could find. Dogs swallowed it like nothing else, but years later I moved a piece of moulding and still found stains from the unrelenting bowel attacks some of my dogs had. With freezing and common-sense moderation I have had no such problems since. So, with the pork, as with anything else, go into in with your eyes open and common sense functioning, and weigh the advice/opinions that you receive accordingly. Good luck with the raw thing. It can be relatively inexpensive if you plan right and have a big freezer so you can take what comes in bulk, cut/saw it up into appropriate portions as soon as you can, and freeze for when you need.

 

That would be 'excess' fatty tissues. Not all of it. And while dogs and wolves are similar, dogs have evolved in a different fashion and are hardly as active or dependent on 'hunting'. The excess fatty tissue should removed because large amounts of it in meats such as 'pork' and high fat cuts of beef, may be what you consistently feed your dog. And over a 'consistent' period of time it will do more harm then good. Please read the whole post. The only wolves generally seen eating vegetation are lone wolves, as their ability to hunt alone is much lower they may resort to scanvenging which includes small pray such as rabbits and mice, and the occasional berries or edible greens. Grass is meant to purge the system when something in their stomach is unsettling.

Very few wolf packs have been observed in the wild and most of the studies that I've found are wolves that are captive in large sanctuaries where their diet is limited. Even where their diet is limited sanctuaries/zoo's ect. their meals are all meat/bone/organ. It also depends on the location of the wolf as far as the climate and how desperate they get for forage. The Wolves first and foremost preference is ALWAYS meat. I think that's pretty easy to see and understand. Often times since wolves start with the chest or stomach(most vulnerable/soft area) the stomach lining is ripped open or torn during removal and the inside of that usually spills out and isn't consumed, while the lining and intestines may be. Along with the heart/liver/ and other larger organs.

I'm not saying dogs don't enjoy a variety in their food or can't stomach fruits and veggies occasionally, I'm not a believer that there is a reason to feed them every meal when not required. Just more work than is necessary to me.
While some dogs may do alright on fruits/veggies/or grains many dogs develop allergies also. Really the only way to do it is READ READ and READ some more and develop a strategy that you believe will work for your dog.

http://books.google.com/books?id=M_q5FP2olaEC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=do+wolves+eat+the+whole+carcass&source=bl&ots=I76QoOf9zB&sig=juEtKTqHh7RqBY6BOwU72G9ageM&hl=en&ei=MmWySsPjLIqAswOz-9HRDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=do%20wolves%20eat%20the%20whole%20carcass&f=false
http://rawfed.com/myths/rebuttal2.html
http://wolfsongalaska.org/wolves_what_food.htm

 

I have been told this too, but I feed it regularly (neck bones and feet mostly) and have never had a problem.
There are also a couple of companies that use pork.

Fromm has a dry and a canned.
http://www.frommfamily.com/products-fs-d-d-pork.php

Nature's Variety uses raw pork fat, liver, and heart in their rabbit diet.
http://www.naturesvariety.com/raw_products_rabbit

 

No. They aren't. Cats are true carnivores meaning they NEED meat. Dogs don't "need" meat. You can feed a dog a vegetarian diet and it will survive and function just fine. Try doing this with a cat...:rolleyes:

 

I'm no expert I just googled and found arguments for and against I copied and pasted that. though I would never feed a dog on just vegetables to find out.

Dogs thrive on meat that's a fact. I just threw that post in to balance out the argument. 2 camps as far as I can see one says dogs are carnivores the other says omnivores, the carnivore camp seems to be much larger than the omnivore camp. I'm in this thread to learn not to argue the toss either way.

 

When given the choice, they'll choose meat. But, when no meat is around they'll graze on other food. It's akin to saying humans are true carnivores when we both (humans & dogs) can get all our nutrients from a wide variety of food.

 

Carnivore-
An animal that feeds chiefly on the flesh of other animals. Carnivores include predators such as lions and alligators, and scavengers such as hyenas and vultures. In a food chain, carnivores are either secondary or tertiary consumers.
Any of various generally meat-eating mammals of the order Carnivora. Carnivores have large, sharp canine teeth and large brains, and the musculoskeletal structure of their forelimbs permits great flexibility for springing at prey. Many carnivores remain in and defend a single territory. Dogs, cats, bears, weasels, raccoons, hyenas, and (according to some classifications) seals and walruses are all carnivores.
A plant that eats insects, such as a Venus flytrap.

Many of the listed animals above eat other things besides meat when nothing else is available. This does not exclude them from being a carnivore.

Vegetarian Diet For Dogs
by David A. Dzanis, D.V.M., Ph.D., DACVN

Many Americans enjoy the vegetarian lifestyle today, either for health or ethical reasons. Some people choose to extend this dietary philosophy to their pets as well, which has prompted the marketing of commercial vegetarian dog and cat foods. There is a spectrum of foods and ingredients that may be included or excluded from a "vegetarian" diet, depending on one’s definition. At minimum, it usually means that most meat sources are excluded from the diet (such as beef, pork, lamb, poultry, and sometimes fish). More restricted diets exclude other foods of animal origin, such as egg and dairy products. Perhaps the most extreme example would be a "vegan" diet, where all foods and ingredients of foods, including vitamin and mineral sources, are excluded if they are derived from animals. Provided foods are carefully combined in appropriate proportions, vegetarian or vegan diets for people can be very nutritious and tasty. However, is the same true for dogs and cats?

To help answer that question, one must consider the normal anatomy and physiology of the dog and cat. Both species are in the scientific order Carnivora ("meat- eaters"), although today the domestic dog is considered more as an "omnivore" (animals that eat both animals and plants). Still, just by comparing the dentition of dogs and cats with that of humans and herbivores (plant-eaters, such as cattle and horses), it is readily apparent that their teeth are designed by nature for eating a diet largely comprised of animal tissue. Their short intestinal tracts compared to humans and especially to animals like sheep or horses also indicate that they are not designed to accommodate diets containing large amounts of plant materials. Their nutritional requirements, such as the need for relatively high amounts of protein and calcium, reflect these dietary limitations.

Cats are even more specific in their nutritional needs, emphasizing their status as "true carnivores." For example, cats cannot convert the beta-carotene in plants such as carrots and dark green vegetables into vitamin A. Rather, they require "pre-formed" vitamin A, such as found in liver and fish oils. Cats also need dietary sources of taurine (an amino acid-like nutrient) and arachidonic acid (an essential fatty acid), both of which are found in appreciable levels only in animal tissues. Thus, while both species can eat and utilize some plant-source ingredients (dogs more than cats), they simply are not intended to eat only plants as are other animals such as cattle and sheep.

Just some food for thought. Just because they 'could' doesn't mean they should.

 

when feeding raw do you feed chicken bones raw whole bone in
or can you get some kind of bone mill

 

Uncooked chicken bone should feed just fine. It's when it's cooked that it is the problem. You can grind it yourself as well, if you go looking for it pre-made make sure it's not the kind they use a fertilizer and actually meant for consumption.

 

so legs an thighs should be fine
cant find chicken backs
was thinking about doing breast but not enough fat

an a ratio of body/raw meat
how much would you feed a 25 lb dog of meat

as far as iron goes I put one liver two gizzards in with a leg and thigh
does that sound bout right

 

How old is your dog?
General rule of thumb is 2%-2.5% of the bodyweight of the dog if your dog is currently at a good weight and you want to maintain it.

This is only a place to start. Adjust daily depending on how hungry/active your dog is. If one day you are less active than the other, feed a little less.

I do roughly 80%meat 10%bone and 10%organ.

I wouldn't recommend feeding liver every day.
It is rich in Vitamin A, Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin which means excess is not excreted in the urine etc.
Too much Vitamin A is toxic to the liver of the animal consuming it and can cause other health problems.

I do half a liver ever 4-5 days..depending on the dog.

Always use the stool as your guide. If it's runny, more bone..to solid..less bone. If you feed chicken backs one day (higher bone to meat ratio) back off on bone for a day or two afterwards. Keep a good variety of meats and organs handy.

 

I mainly use chicken leg quaters right now on a 4month pup 15-20 lbs

i have been feeding liver every day so far chicken liver
but when I do feed it I use 1 leg quarter 1 liver 2 gizzards 1 heart
all chicken parts

this is my first time actualy tryn a 100% raw diet