Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Dogs are better than guns, i dont think a dog is a security system by any means but i do belive they are an important part of one.

1. dogs operate without you.
2. nonone can wrestle your dog from you and use it against you.
3. dogs can be called off of an attack a bullet not so much
4. you can easily fire a gun in the dark and miss sending that slug off intoo the night to hit anything (or anyone) in its path
5. dogs are smart, they can detect and deterr a would be attack before it happens.
6. having that poop in the yard lets people know that there is a dog present and can deter intruders as well.

Guns are good, i am not saying that they should be replaced by a dog but a well trained dog is going to provide so much more than a gun could.

Junkyard- I wouldnt go directing people to getting a Fila, that might be WAY more than most need, but a good American Bulldog would be perfect. I dont think a lot of people need that kind of dog and in the wrong hands its a liability. it takes a lot of work and time to train a dog that is well over 100 pounds and is bred to HATE people, to get it to a point of even mild tolerance of strangers is a feat. the detterant factor is the biggest part, but you want a dog that will confront a threat and then engage if need be. and a LOT of Filas talk the talk but turn tail whent he pressure is on. finding a good one is hard, but when you do have a good one, its really more dog than most need. Kind of like you would tell any tom, dick, and harry to run out and get an APBT... simply ebcause they wouldnt be ready for a dog that serious... same deal.

Shutzhund is a game... and typically its trained in all prey drive so the dogs enjoy it and are good at it. I fully embrace APBT being used in bite sports and a step further also in personal protection work. if you dont understand the drives that the dog is working it makes it looka lot worse than it is. For the most part it is controlled tug o' war... the dogs are primarily working in a controlled fashion to get a reward, if this were OB training the reward might be a treat or a got rub down.. in this cse the reward is the bite. It does not increase the dogs aggression at all, it has nothing to do with Human aggression or anything like that.
APBTs use in guard work is something that i do oppose and very strongly. guard dog work requires the dog to work alone to identify a threat and to react to it, so in order for a dog to do this work they ahve to have a level of suspicion and elements of aggression, which should both be nrealy non-existant in the breed.

APBT/ Protection dog = good
APBT/ guard dog= VERY bad

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

1." dogs operate without you. "
im not so sure thats always a good thing. chains and crates can prevent a dog from "operating" w/out their owner
2."nonone can wrestle your dog from you and use it against you."
and with some proper training, weapon retention isnt an issue either
3. "dogs can be called off of an attack a bullet not so much" true, but if i fire a weapon, i m shootin to kill anyway
4. "you can easily fire a gun in the dark and miss sending that slug off intoo the night to hit anything (or anyone) in its path" flashlight and pistols go hand in hand. i carry a Surefire in my pocket daily with a Glock on my hip. my Remington 870 has a Surefire forend with a light also. common sense really
5. "dogs are smart, they can detect and deterr a would be attack before it happens." and so will a few signs on the doors warning folks that I AM NOT A VICTIM
6. "having that poop in the yard lets people know that there is a dog present and can deter intruders as well." thats gross, i keep the yard clean

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

best "watchdog" hands down.....

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

...Guinea Fowl. no man nor beast can get with 100 yards of my property without me knowing. they are the best alarm/watchdogs running

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Thats crazy it looks like a little cassowary. if the temperment on them is similar i know i would be more afriad of that then a dog, lol.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

deisel, if your wife wont touch a gun, try stressing the fact that she might need to defend herself/others someday. my girl has been shootin since we started dating in high school, so im good. she has certain weapons she very effective with, and they are always loaded. as for my ability and situation, whos else COULD i speak from? i guess some of you all dont concern yourself with such things, but in the country a 911 response could take 20-30 minutes.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

im not saying a dog is a bad idea, but im not gonna depend on my dogs to do much more than wag a tail and look for a pat on the head

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I hear you, my girl doesnt like it that I have guns she wont touch them. i talked her into coming to the range 1 time and that was a chore in itself. they are too loud, my hands hurt, im ready to go... night mare.

My dogs WORK. we have companion dogs who's job it is to get petted and to wag tails. Just like you ahve trained your self to shoot and defend, i have trained my dogs to bite and to assess threats. Just like you are confident in your responses and ability, i have that same level of confidence in them. When i am away from home i dont stress about my family at all. To each his own i guess.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Thats like sayin why spend money and time to weightpull when we have trucks. ITs a sport!! maybe im missin something:rolleyes:

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

i guess all i can say is this...i can kill your dogs, and you wouldnt have squat. dogs dont shoot back, and they gotta get up close to do any damage. not an argument, just hoping folks would realize that just cuz you have a dog doesnt mean you should feel protected. nothing replaces a trained shooter with a firearm.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

as stated in post #81 dog are not a replacement for a gun. and they arent the end all be all of a home security system.. merely a part of it. motion lights, electronic security systems, fencing, good locks and window alarms, and YES guns too.. it all works together.
be it a watchdog that just alerts, a guard dog that protects property, or a protectin dog that protects the family... differnt dogs ahve different pdirves for different kinds of work. if you ahve the right dog in the right job it will accel in that. you can teach some behaviors but when the dog is working with its natural drives its much more reliable and much more likely to succeed.

Oh, and if you did shoot my dog i would likely hear that and evn in death he would have done his job of alerting me to your presence so that I could be waiting for you when you did make it inside. The dog doesnt have to win to do its role in a well designed home security... even if its just long enough for me to arm myself, or to hit the alarm, or to get out of the house.. it still helps.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

My husband is an accomplished marksman. He totes money for a living in some very rough neighborhoods. He doesn't even wear a vest as he believes if a threat gets that close to him before he can take them down a "head shot" is a comin. He is as proficient with the big dawg, his .357 as he is with his glock, even he says firing at a dog moving at a quick rate of speed that can close in on you in very short distances is challanging.

I think if you live in a rural environment guns are probably a safer option...a stray bullet can travel very large distances, but then in this environment any good alert dog gives you an advantage. Where I live guns are not so good. You live in very close quarters with your neighbors, many that run out and buy a gun for protection have not a clue, much like the many that run and and get an APBT for protection...dangerous.

I think the bottom line is training a K-9 or a PPD is a difficult feat, choosing the correct breed for the task is foundational to the success...

And Performance I could watch your dawgs all day long....NICE!!!!!

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I have a gun and my dogs are protective what else is there to say? And yes I do enter my APBTS in protection and bite work training hell the Gs and BM and the others aren't the only ones that can whoop ass

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

i just believe mastering a firearm is easier than getting into training protection dogs. this thread has become far more interesting than it was a few pages ago.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I would agree learning to shoot is easier, as far as picking up a gun pointing and pulling the trigger...but being able to reliably (safely) shoot at and hit a moving target takes YEARS of practice and dedication. Developing the skill need to lead a target or to anticipate movement to be accurate is a skill that some will never master. not to mention that most people who arent trained in combat situation will be shakey, jumpy, and thire reaction time will be affected negatively in a situation where life is on the line. In the real world your targets are rarely staionary so being "scared" and shooting while you are moving or while the target is moving... probably at you, is a challenge to say the least. being as a good prospect will never have the fear in them in the first place i would say they would be more relaiable in thier reaction. I guess what i am saying is that YOU might be able to do it, but i dont think that is the case for most people.

granted a bullet or two (depending on the dog) might be all that is needed to stop them, but you take a dog that is dar coated and put them in the night or a dark room and what do you think you odds are of seeing and killing it before it got to you? If you ahve a flashlight then the intruder would actually have the advantage if they are in the dar because they can see you coming and you can only see a narrow beam.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Actually no. Dont try to act like some know it all. Actually please do act like a know it all. I enjoy laughing. Anywho, I read and spoke to people who KNOW what they are talking about and they said the same thing. If you are on the floor getting punched in the face. YOUR apbt would protect you if it loves you/has a great bond. These dogs are not robots and are not stupid. You think they are to dumb and are programed to not do anything as you are half dead being jumped by a bunch of thugs?

Now, if someone brakes into your house and points a gun at you. No, most of the time your apbt will not attack even if your letting out stressful emotions. But once your apbt see's you on getting attacked. It should protect you. And a trained guard dog WOULd protect you in this situation...

I might of worded my post wrong in the beginning... But bottom line is, if you are physicall attacked, a nice bonded APBT will protect you. IT will not sit down and watch someone punch your teeth out.


You could believe what you want to believe, but you are not going to convince me and what knowledgeable people have told me. In fact, I would not take your advice ralleyracer if I had to answer a million dollar question between yours and mine. So dont try act smart.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

you are nothing but a punk 18 year old kid. go ahead and listen to those oh so knowledgable folks. bottom line is when it hits the bricks its a crap shoot, like it or not.
just wondering-if you have access to such smart folk why on earth are you asking this stuff on the internet?
word to the wise- listen more, speak less. you might actually learn something. but until you drop your holier than thou attitude you will be nothing more than a punk. i have forgotten more about these dogs than you know there brainiac

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Just like you said yourself, these dogs (or any breed of dog, for that matter) are not "robots" and they are not programmed to act one way or any other specific way. They might have certain common instincts and urges that are considered to be "textbook-standard", but its impossible to generalize all dogs into a specific reaction i.e. fear-motivated aggression. They are dogs, that react and are driven as INDIVIDUALS. Every dog is going to have its own individual reaction to a certain degree of stimulation and stress, and there's no way to evaluate and assess an entire breed or breed-type by pulling information out the ass. Especially in a dynamically stressful situation that involves physical violence or force. Sounds like your experts are full of shit.. and if you're not going to validate your own questions with valid measures of testing and hands-on assessment, then you need to at least think about what you're being told with some sound common sense.