Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

You asked our opinion of the dogs and we gave it to you. There is no argument. Just stating facts. What is so hard to understand that these dogs have a standard and that is the determining factor of the dogs alongside gameness? Both of which these mutts do not have. If you see a 40 lb Great Dane that is short and bowlegged, would you call it a Great Dane? Nope. Just because it has papers you think it is automatically an APBT? If so, you are way off. My neighbor could register his Jack Russell as one if he wanted. Just in the same way as these breeders breed their mastiffs into a line and get them registered. If you truly feel that "A pitbull can be whatever the hell it wants to be" you are a burden to the APBT community and I have no respect for anyone who thinks this way. Be happy to know that these dogs, that you are condoning the breeding of in the pursuit of a breeders personal agenda, are the same ones that may maul someone in the future. I hope you really think about it. Improper breeding doesn't just cause problems with the breed it causes problems for innocent people. I may not be able to stop it but I sure as hell won't accept it.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Ok, slow down turbo. I am not a burden to ... I may not be worthy I guess but I love my dog and I am worthy to her weather you think she is a pit or not. Like I said I am no pitbul expert. All I know is that people have different visions on pitbulls. Dont knock down what other people believe in. Ok yeah maybe pitbulls are suppose to be a certain size, color or whatever. Most people don't know that like me. That is why we came to this forum to learn. Not get harrased becasue they dont have an official game-dog as you say. And the comment you made here about "Improper breeding doesn't just cause problems with the breed it causes problems for innocent people." Well once again I am not expert but I really dont think that breeding has nothing to do with problems with innocent people. I would honestly say ITS THE OWNERS.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

i think when you breed a pitbull to any other breed you produce a hazard to people for example a pit x rott mix is not only a sh!t eater but you just produced a dog that has the drive not to quite and the will to attack people pitbulls are breed to fight and rotts are breed to bite people thats hazardess to me keep the breeds seperate and for thier natual purposs

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Well this is my first post on this board but I had to jump in this one. This topic about Pitfall kennels has been beat to death on many boards. Your race, your choice of music, or your neighborhood has nothing to do with your dogs. I have seen dogs from the hood from dogs to the trailer park. And it is all about the owners, their are good and bad of both. Me myself I prefer a game bred dog myself but to each his own. If I were into blues or staffs then those dogs would be high on my list. Big Boi is a millionaire, so Im sure that his dogs are taken care of better than a lot of the dogs we see in the hood or the trailer park. And if you dont like em dont buy em, why even look at the site if you arent interested. He sells his dogs for big money so Im sure the people who buy them have long pockets also. But some people who criticize may need to check their own yards first. And a good dog man doesnt judge by stereo types a dogman knows a dogman by seeing what comes out of his mouth...

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Mr Pits. One thing that I like about our breed, is that unlike show dogs, our breed is not bred to fit to a strict standard based simply on looks. Our dogs already do come in a variation of colours, eye colours, weights and builds - yet we still should able recognize them when we see one bred to the standard.

Diesel. Fair comment. But that is not what the thread is about - It is about Outcast and Pit Fall Kennels. These people market their dogs like some product that can be dealt out to the general masses and sold for huge amounts of money in huge numbers. On their home page is their slogan: "They go fast, so get yours now". Last time I looked they had over 20 dogs for sale. If I were to sell dogs, especially considering the current Pit Bull epidemic, I would make damn sure I knew where they were going. What do you think the highest cause of death for a dog is in the U.S - I hear it's ethinasia! That is a good reason for the negative comments made towards them. These are your types of dog they're peddling, so why didn't you simply make a comment on Pit Fall kennels?

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Soulja, you are right to a certain extent. Race, money and music are not the determining factors. But the hip-hop community and "some" of its artist have used the breed in a negitive way (videos). The artist, producers and the likes may be great people I dont know, but the little ones who wish to be like the artist in the video see that artist with an aggressive dog. Most of the young people have no idea how to handle a dog of any breed properly and have seen from the video's it is COOL to have a dog that will lunge at others.
No it is not the music or the race or economic statis that says an owner will be good or not it is their influence's and their experiance and what there objective in owning this or any breed.
I feel as some others in here that puppy milling this or any other breed is incorrect, wrong for the breed and certainly wrong for the APBT. People with "long" pockets are not autoumaticlly good dogmen or owners by rights of being rich, no more so than a man of lesser means.
When it comes to trying to keep the breed real, I will have to side with the dogman in here and say it is the mixing of dogs meant to watch man with a dog that has the drive of a an APBT that can create unstable dogs, unstable around humans.
It is to me curious how many dogs are culled from big boi's because they do not meet their standards, if they have standards. If I were a breeder and cared about the breed I would be sure that each and every owner understood the history of the breed and a full understanding of the measures they may have to go to in order to maintain this breed safely and in good health. If the dogs I have seen on the web site are what they are calling APBT then I doubt they can give a good definition on behavior because they sure looked mixed with some larger breed of dog other than just APBT.
I will stop but this is my opinion.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Long one:

BnD- Thats where your wrong. Negative press is caused by mixed breeds and most times the dogs involved arent even pits. Its common knowledge that any dog that even remotely resebembles a pit bull is going to be a pit in the medias eyes, even when the dog is clearly of mixed back ground or not a pit. How many of these attacks have you seen on TV and the dog they show is just some scrawy little dog? The bite inhibition of the breed is compromised by mixing in other blood. I think you are letting the media get to you too. Bite statistics are skewed and breed identification is next to impossible especially duringa bite. Just because they say it was a pit doesnt mean it was.

I have seen several posts in this regard on my boards and the answer is always the same. Cull the dog, its a liability, and not fitting of the breed. this is an area where there is NO compromising. A pit that would even show its teeth to me, is not a pit that will be around to do it twice.

pitbulls- when i say waterdown i do not mean mixed breeds... i would say bandogs. I am talking about pure pits just not gamebred ones. And the idea that pits could get to 130 pounds is not something i agree with. but 90 pounds sure. 130 is mastiff sized... the dogs that are that size are very mastiff in appearance, and for a reason. if you notice its primarily red dogs that are that big... and they are usually EXTREMELY similar in build to douges. Its not rocket science... its very obvious they are mutts. These are the lines you avoid.

BnD- My nongame dogs wouldnt bite a soul. We regularly get together for BBQs and get togethers bringing hundreds of people and dogs in close proximity and have never had an incident of a person being bitten. Our dogs get stolen just like yours, for being so damn friendly. The temperments are the same.. they just arent game. Which incidentally not even every game bred dog is either.

side note: these are not even OutKasts dogs... Andre and Big Boi have nothing to do with that kennel. Its Big Boi's brothers kennel. He advertised for his brother as a favor to him. You noticed it was only on that one CD that it was done. Just wanted to point that out. They are not Outkasts dogs.

Rasp- and I have ripped on those garbage ass dogs many times. They might be the style of mine, but the are not the lines or the breedings I would ever endorse. Out of all the dogs on that site there is only 1 that I was even reasonably impressed with... and he is dead. There is nothing about that kennel that I would endorse. there is no excuse to have that many breedings simultaneously unless it was just for profit. a real breeder would never have so many. I understand what your saying about the pitbull numbers too. thats why a lot of breeders use spay/neuter contracts. or offer price cuts for people who get the dog altered. I know that I am designing a contract that will do just that. I want any dog that leave my yard to be altered. te only dogs capable of breeding will be the ones that I keep for my yard. I am not breeding for the people. I am breeding for myself, and then if someone would like one as well we can work something out.


I havent bred anything at this point. I have been in the breed for about 3 years now, and have had 6 pits bulls over that time. as they matured there were things about them that I felt were detriments, so they were altered and sold of just given to friends or family. I now have a dog that I am confidnet in and comfortable with. I have been looking for a complimentarty female for a little over a year. See because I (AND OTHERS)dont breed for gameness there are several areas that my dogs have measure up to. I am looking at temperement, drive, build, conformation, and a spark... i dont relaly know how to describe it but its a feeling i get that lets me know that the dog has potential.
Where it comes to size.. I am flexible. I want a bigger dog, but at the same time I want an athletic dog. so i i have a dog that is 60 lbs and a dog that is 80 lbs. I want the biggest dog possible that maintains athleticsm. so if the 60 lb dog have flawless movement and stamina, and the 80 lb dog doesnt i would go for that smaller dog no question. But if the 80 lb dog has the proportions, the build and the stamina then i would go with it. I dont sacrifice ability for looks. I want the best of both worlds. ability with looks.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Once againg, this topic needs to be put under the ground. There's no need for opinions on this subject because I'm sure you could assume the feedback that your going to get. The only reason why you have kennels, such as pitfalls, is because of the name "pit bull" That's why owners and breeders of the apbt get so hot about this same topic being brought up every other day. Bottom line is that the breeders of these so called bully's are using the name "pit bull" as their sales pitch. If those dogs were registered under any other name they wouldnt be as popular as they are today. You even have people out there that realy believes that they have the true apbt and frown on our dogs because they believe that they are "skinny with small heads". A lot of Americans believe that big is better and that's why you have millions of bogus bully kennels, breeders thats given thousands of people a false since of security.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

"i think when you breed a pitbull to any other breed you produce a hazard to people for example a pit x rott mix is not only a sh!t eater but you just produced a dog that has the drive not to quite and the will to attack people pitbulls are breed to fight and rotts are breed to bite people thats hazardess to me keep the breeds seperate and for thier natual purposs"

I thought we were trying to get away from stereotyping dogs here. The dog in my siggy (the tri-color red and black male) was a Pit/Rott and he never bit anyone. He was an extremely loyal and loving dog. Not hazardess at all.

I think it is to the breeders preference. Like any breed some like them smaller some taller. But those dogs are ugly and WAY to expensive.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

mastiff mix or just a big pit bull.
http://www.msnusers.com/_Secure/0RQAAAGITt4I8gPcajPCSV6QDy0jsgkPYp9lE!u5p*kKwJ9UlB*wakin*4S0PJZLKKPM!7idbvIiHxdvbzXvdPVQlseI1B7tgf*OzxFX*Qy8/DSC01967.JPG?dc=4675534698467573094


He has typical bully temperment. loves people... all people particularly children. Will lay down when children approach him so they will pet him. Gets along with a few of the dogs that he was socialized with as a puppy but other then that, i would trust him farther then i could throw him. as a juvenile he took a run a my parents Rottie who is insanely humungous. He is definately got the "eye of the tiger". the god thing about him is he makes a good "watch" dog. because as long as people jsut stand back and watch they will think he is tough. He looks the part and will even bark... but all you have to do is look at him and talk baby talk. then the most dangerous part of his body is his tail... he has brused many a chin with that thing, LOL.

Propoertions, conformation, build... all in line. What the standard say in regard to weight is this:

UKC- The American Pit Bull Terrier must be both powerful and agile so actual weight and height are less important than the correct proportion of weight to height. it goes on to give desireable dimensions, but not to say that they are the only acceptable ones.

ADBA- Height to weight ratio is critical. Since dogs were fought at nearly identical weights, the bigger the dog you have at the weight, the better your chances.

the only registry that actually give measurements is the AKC... and who gives a damn what they think, lol. but they do say most importantly that heigh and weight be inproportion.

so while you have dogs that are grossly overweight being 17-18" at the withers and weighing 80-90 pounds. you can also have dogs that are 23-24" at the withers weighing 120-130 lbs. both are wrong the proportions are ghastly and the dogs are obvisouly bred for the wrong reasons.

the one thing that all registries agree on is the proportion, so dont get caught up in the weight or height of the dog. as long as the dog is built properly it can still maintain movement, endurance, and stamina.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

If we have a new member every day, then of course we'll see this type of thread every day. Other than that everything does remain the same, ie. "Does this breeding look good?", "What's the best food?". The only variance that I've seen to notice are the health issues, in which case what good are they unless a vet has properly diagnosed the problem? All we can do is continue to have patience and advise each other the best way we can.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Reading this just completely baffles the s#!$ out of me. I mean I don't condone cross breeding by any means, but you rip Pitfall, and you seem to be doing the EXACT same thing you criticize. You altered their faults and gave the "faulty" dogs away. You admitted that you don't want gameness? How much sense does that make if you advocate game dogs? You admonish large dogs but advocate a 60 to 80 pound bohemoth? Maybe it's just me, but if a dog is bred for performing at a 40 to 55 pound level then how do you expect him to maintain the same type of conditioning at such a high weight? You also want ability and looks? LOOKS? Proposterous and quite confusing. How can members possibly have any sense of direction if the "dog men" themselves are so confused. Perhaps the blind leading the blind?

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

lytegray- let me simplify.. I do often times rattle on with perfect understanding, and forget that i may need to explain my self fuller to others. something that I always do, my apologies.

Okay- I rip pitfall because the quality of thier dogs is sub-par to me. I dont like thier dogs, they look like the type of dog that will run around the black and then collapse from exaustion. I dont condone that, The pit bull should be an athelete, the pinnacle of the canine world. They are short fat and out of shape. i dont like them at all. I am not knocking them for thier bloodlines but for the specimens that they are using.
I knock them for the repeated breedings of sub par dogs I have been to that site several times and everytime there are litters on the ground. thats what i dont like about them.

I altered i.e. spayed or neutered (depending on sex) my early dogs. for whatever reason, be it temperment, build, conformation... they were not fit to reproduce in my eyes.

I never said that i dont want gameness, but the lines that i work in the possibility of a game dog is astronomical... laughable even. If i just so happened to get one i would never know it. And I am okay with that. as I said in my initial post on this board, the trait of gameness doesnt really have a place for me. It can only be proved in the pit, therefore it can only be used and needed in the pit. thats my opinion. I dont expect you to agree, just respect it as my view.

I advocate game dogs as the reason that I have the dogs that are her today. I respect the dogmen and women that gave the breed the traits that make them so stable and amazing. I have a very deep respect for gamedogs... But as I said the average person on the street cant handle a gamedog. its to much intensity for joe blow on the street. thats where non-game pits come into play.

I like large dogs, i have a 90 pound male personally and i think he is wonderful. Stick with me on this: I advocate proportions. Not size. I dont expect my dog to be as quick or agile as your 50 lb game dog... but i do expect him to be much faster and more agile then the next 90 pound dog. That at his size he be an athlete. I am not comparing apples to apples, its apples and oranges. apples being the classic game dog, oranges the non-game. I expect that put up against a non-game bred dog of similar weight that my dog run him into the ground, that he jump higher, run faster, and longer.

clearer? I am not trying to compete with game dogs, or trying to improve on perfection. what i am saying is that the non-game dogs are not bred with that one trait in mind. so there has to be another goal in mind to guide a program.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

What exactly is their likes? I like Hip Hop music, and many other types of music, but that does not mean I own mix- breed dogs and call them APBT's . If their likes mean African- Americans, than I am guilty of that also, but I don't have a problem with anyone, as long as they respect me respect will be returned. I don't agree with the type of dog's they breed , but them as far as people I dont know anything about them. GaDog, if I misunderstood your comment,about their likes, then I apoligize.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

they like their dogs like there music big and worthless

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Apology excepted

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

:eek: what!? you guys dont like rap music either... who would have guessed that:rolleyes: We have got to shake this backwood red-neck stereotype guys.
Every black guy isnt a hip hop thug and every white guy isnt a country loving hick. stop judgin so much on appearance... get to know people before you make generalizations. let people be individuals.


lets not turn this into a race thing, because its not. at least I hope not.
I have noted little remarks in several posts that could easily have been taken as shots at race.. But i keep telling myself I am being to sensative because I am black.
Let it be known there are just as many bad breeders that are white as are black.. a bad breeder is a bad breder no matter what lines he deals with, what colors he breeds for, or the color of his skin.

Lets stick to the dogs and not make it a personal or racial vendetta... I would like to think we have more respect for ourselves then to stoop to that ignorant ass stuff.


this isnt to everyone I have actually receive a pretty warm welcome from several of you, and I appreciate it. its nice to be among open minded people to debate with. note debate, not fight or argue.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Racism is not allowed on this site, give me a min to read up!

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

Marty- No lets not make it an issue, because I dont think it is. I havent seen any overt statements to make me think someone was being racist. just comments that werent thought out, thats all.
no biggie.

 

Re: Outkast kennels "Pitfall Kennels"

If it is my postings then there is no racism, period. It is a life style I am speaking of, that life style knows no race boundries.