Old game Bred Bull terriers

If you pitted two Collies against each other you'd end up with a 1x winner. There's a reason the EBT isn't used by proper dogmen and that's because it can't compete in the fast lane. How many pure Bull Terriers have made an impact in the game?

 

Dogman85, do You really think colby pincher won angainst 24 apbt in the end of 1800???

 

I'd argue there are plenty of historical photos of bull terriers in this thread alone that indicate otherwise. However, I don't know how anyone can be certain simply by "looking" at a particular dog from 100+ years ago what, exactly, its pedigree was.

We know they were used to create a number of other successful breeds such as the Australian cattle dog, bull arab and dogo Argentino, as well as the bully kuta/gull ter etc. It makes you wonder why they used the bull terrier and not something else. There are lots of stories of bull terrier exploits in the colonies. There were also many notable and successful fighting dogs that were bull terrier crosses and used extensively in APBT breeding programs.

This is all documented, so I don't know how it can be denied.

Select bull terriers to this day are still being used for pig hunting, personal protection, agility . . . and occasional dog fights in countries like China, Russia and central Asia. They are few and far between - no-one is arguing otherwise - but bullies have often been put to use at different stages of history.

If true (I thought there were never worked???), then what you're saying is white bull terriers were crossed with game dogs of the day to produce the coloured bull terrier, which would seem to contradict the following . . .

Coloured bull terriers are part of the breed's history - as is the back-and-fort crossing of game dogs of the day.

The bull terrier was specifically used to give mouth to the Aussie cattle dog and bull arab. Pure bull arabs are 50% bull terrier. APBTs have been around in decent numbers long enough in Australia now for purebreds and crosses to have been tried on large feral boars in the bush. The bull arab is still the most successful pig-hunting dog in Australia. Go figure. Though one of the reasons bull arabs have been more successful that APBT's here is that they can work with other dogs and don't exhibit the same level of dog aggression. Bull terriers are generally more tolerant towards other dogs.

Again, I ask: how are you measuring the APBT's bite?

Have to agree with bluedoglover - EBTs were one of the dominant fighting breeds in Australia pre and post-war. It wasn't until the late 80s, early 90s that APBTs started to come into the country in greater numbers. While I was never involved in dog fighting, I adopted an ex-pit (English) bull terrier after she was rescued and she was a hell of a dog for her size and not at all like today's show dogs. In fact, none of my Aussie bull terriers from the early 80s were like today's show dogs.

Then again, how many "game" APBTs get to prove themselves these days? How do you know you are breeding "game" dogs if they never get tested? Gameness is not something you tell just by looking at a dog.

 

How the hell do I know, I'm guessing alot of those wins were more like rolls and not proper matches. What's that got to do with anything anyway?

 

The Sporting Bull Terrier by Eugene Glass.
http://www.pitbullclassics.com/sportingterrierbook.htm

Here is someone who was there at the time - unlike us - telling it how it is. For those who want to continue to believe the Hinks bull terrier was never used for sport, nor that they were ever mixed, you probably don't want to read the above link.

Denial is sure to follow.

 

Because his sire come from imported colored old bull terrier and because in those days, the apbt was not the only one you can find inside a box..

 

Stop it with the rubbish please, complete utter tripe I'm afraid...

 

Well first of, she was matched against an apbt by Cajun rules and was half apbt.

 

The half APBT part stands out....

 

Nothing. But pincher stopped a lot of dogs in rolls.

Gull terr are rather worthless imo. You're in China right?

 

I said that most of those wins were probably rolls and against other breeds....

 

The dogs documented that formed the base of the Pit Bull Terrier in America were pit dogs from britain, ireland and other european countries brought by migrants with them and imported by dogmen.

Early 1800's all the way to imports made early 1900's. These were pit dogs mostly of the bull and terrier crosses. The English Bull Terrier however wasnt until the 1860's and had some of the fighting dogs in its blood mixed with none fighting types. The English Bull Terrier was created as a show dog, there are a few cases where a dog was too hot for the bench and the owner would sell the dog as a fighter.

Yes there were some EBT that showed promise in the pit and dogs like Frisco Sport upto half EBT made a small fortune for his owner AE Betts and was studded out for years by Betts and his later subsequent owners. Another Crellin's Dan that made made Ed Rubels kennels famous after Rubel bought him and made him a champion, was one of the most studded out dogs ever documented of that period and said to have sired more game dogs than any other dog before.

The point being 99.9% of these pit Bull Terriers around that have been documented had no EBT in there pedigrees. Sure the English Bull Terrier was still a capable dog and was used for hunting, tracking, and crossed to make other utility dogs, it was never bred for the pit.

Which is why there are only a handful of EBT names that crop up during this period. Hell in the sporting halls of New York there was even a Dutch Terrier called Jack that went over 2 hours and was pitted again in futher contests.

Creating a modern version of rhe way the EBT was created would be like taking the APBT of whatever colour you preferred, lets say red, and crossing in other none fighting breeds of that colour and breeding to keep them Red for the next 50 years. Then expecting to have a fighting dog at the end of it in a severly diluted and handicapped form.

The EbT that did show some good traits is just testament to the tenacity of the old fighting dogs coming through, despite Hinks and the show crowds best efforts to ruin them.

 

End of thread....

 

Hinks patent The Name!!!! After Hinks won many show it was recognized by all as Bull terrier. Before that happened the Bull terrier could be in different colors And was a Pit dog!!! Mostly White from england, Red from irish black&Tan from Manchester ecc ecc..
You Can find that info in many old books.

 

Hinks strain was prefered in show cause The white one is more elegant

 

Exactly what I am saying. The fighting Bull and Terriers were used in the Creation of the dog known as The English Bull Terrier. That is where the English Bull Terriers course went the show route, a diluted version of the Pit dog with other blood added and kept mostly white. The fighting Bull and Terriers continued to be used in the pit and became know as Pit Bull Terriers, Game bull Terriers, Boston Bull Terriers, Pit Bull dogs, game fighting dogs, fighting Bulldogs and later American Bull Terriers and eventually the APBT. They came in all shapes, colours and sizes.
The scene in the UK and Ireland started to die out as the laws were harsher and at some point in the early 1900's probably 1920's the imports dried up because they were breeding on a much larger scale in America, they were better organised and had a very active dog fighting scene, and the English and Irish dogs couldn't compete.

There were a lot of Pit dogs that were white or white with some coloured markings, but they were not EBT. No country had a monopoly on colour, there were white Irish Pit dogs like Jack Sutton from imported Murphy strain and famous Irish Black and tans as well as Reds, brindle etc.

These are all fighting Bull Terriers from England and Ireland but not EBT.

There were even French dogs weighing 90lbs with a pit record imported, along with Irish dogs. (1909)



Jack Sutton White dog from imported Irish stock (1912)


Champion Jack (1909)


Peter (1906)



Famous dog Ch Terry (1908)



Two English imports to America (1909)



Another import (1909)



A 1907 Advert for imports (not the same James Hinks who died in 1877) - Imported dogs even as far as Australia and Africa.






British Demon a Dog imported from England (1907) Born in South Africa

 

Don't Mean nothing...I've posted in One of the firsts Pages...
You could find various colors everywhere but was like i said.
The Most pure from england was mostly white from irish was Red..if sutton imported a brindle one dont mean nothing..It can Mean that dog was Not a pure bred..

 

And You are talking over 1900..

 

The Black and tans were famous dogs from Ireland as well, just because the Red dogs became famous doesn't mean most of the Irish dogs were red, because they were not. Same with the English dogs they were all colours.

 

Don't misunderstud please..all colors everywhere is right but the most pure was like i said..