Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

Woody has a great point.If people try to make the APBT something it's not,then it will be something it's not.Now personally,I don't mind if people use their APBTs in off leash sports,[don't know how a hot dog could,but do what you can do]just don't be surprised if something bad happens.I don't think the true APBT will die out at all,some people still will still breed bulldogs,but I would hate to see them go the way of the English bulldog.If they're bred for different traits,pretty soon they will be a different dog.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

The APBT as its true form will never go away. Once it's in your blood it's like a drugs . there will always be guys keeping bulldogs true all the show folks will have is nothing more then a grayhound most do anyway. from my prospective these people who do all that sport & ob thing run kennals & make a living off dogs in one form or fashion. They want to say look at me i can tame this wild pitbull & teach it to do tricks now give me money & i will tame your mut.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

You see some pit bulls excelling in these areas of off-leash sports, but I personally don't think the typical APBT owner should be involved in those types of things. Let me re-phrase that, any, APBT owner.

Most happen to be cold as ice, pet bulls.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

The last three posts^^^ have been what I've tried to get across but its like beating a dead horse around here...I don't know about the rest of you but I love the APBT... I never want an American Weight Pull Terrier.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

So I'll ask again:
What do you suggest be done?

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

Get proven dogs from over seas.... And don't breed them damn weightpull champs...what do you suggest...if your gonna participate in any of those sports,fix your dogs and don't plan a breeding program around them, because soon those dogs your breeding will not be an APBT... Now tell if I'm wrong.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

you dont know what you will get from overseas. there will always be folks breeding junk dogs that dont mean you got buy them. IDC what happens i know that i will have bulldogs. real dogmen breed there own so it dont matter what other folks do with there dogs.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

It's your opinion, and I was curious because I've been told the same thing many times, but no one really had an answer for allowing the breed to exist in any sort of legal sense. Personally, it's my opinion that breeding a dog for solely for one quality will ruin it, no matter what you're doing with it. I'm not going to say that if you breed for legal sport you shouldn't be breeding either, but you should take a look at your program and see if your dog possesses the true qualities of the APBT. The part of your plan I see going wrong is the eventual ban of the shipping of fighting animals. That, and unless you yourself are going overseas, you don't know what they'd be sending you

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

Well it seems like we are on the same page a little...I just don't like when those who breed for legal sports say that the dogmen breaking the law is killing the breed because that is what they are doin. Fact is you can get a proven dog in your home state... But we wouldn't knowingly purchase one, right?

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

I snickered a bit, and no, no we wouldn't. This reminds me of something. Time to finish my paper

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

Much good debate here. I myself have to stick to my original stance here. The APBT can shine in ON LEASH sports. As I mentioned before, Tiger generated a lot of positive PR for the breed when he earned his CGC. Now would I let him do obedience off leash? No way.

Now he is obedience trained himself, he knows how to behave himself in public & at dog shows, but I still will not court the devil by letting him loose around other dogs. I know my dogs & I know while he will listen, he will still defend himself & once in fight mode, he will not quit. If it had been Tiger instead of Hennessey at that flyball tourny, that BC x wouldn't have gotten off so lightly.

I will share an old parable I'm sure you have all heard. Here it is:

"A scorpion was standing at the edge of a river. Shortly a frog came by. The scorpion asked the frog 'Sir Frog, I have need to cross this river. Will you transport me across on your back?' The frog, horrified, replied "Scorpion, you must be mad! If I allow you on my back you will sting me. I will die & we will both drown!' The scorpion replied 'Surely, I would not do such a thing! I do not wish to die!' Considering such logic, the frog agreed. The scorpion climbed on the frog's back & when they were at the deepest, swiftest point of the of the river, the scorpion stung the frog. As the frog was dying he asked the scorpion, 'Scorpion, why did you do this? Now we will both die!' The scorpion replied 'Dear frog, I didn't want to do it. But I am a scorpion, it's in my nature...'"

Such is the nature of our dogs. I know from experince you can train your eyeballs out & have what you think to be the best controlled dog in the world, but all it takes is just one accident & whether it was your dog who started it or not, we'll have another headline. At the very, very least you may poison the mind of another person who may vote for BSL b/c of the "pit bull attack" they witness on the agility field or flyball track.

Now do attacks at dog sports happen often? No. But as proven by Hennessey's case, it DOES happen & we don't need any more "attacks" - dog sports related or not- than we already have.

Now do I feel pit bulls should be kept behind closed doors? Of course not!! No way! I think we should promote all the postive aspects of these dogs that we can - SAFELY. There is NO reason to risk our breed other than to as one poster previously mentioned - owner ego. "Look at me, I've tamed the 'untamable' APBT!" Then an accident happens.

Those of you who know me know I wholeheartedly support SAFE dog sports for our breed & that I work my own dogs. I show, I pull, I do on leash obedience. CGC, therapy dog & other on leash things are great. But I have seen supposedly "well trained" & "solid" dogs revert back to their natural instincts. No matter how well trained a dog "seems" s**t happens. Everyone is free to believe what they like & do what they like, but to me it's just too much of a risk for our breed to be running free playing pretty around other dogs for owner ego.

JMHO ...

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

Okay for one I right now am doing all my sports with dogs that I DID NOT produce, i am benefiting some body else at this point, not breeding. So to say I or WE are doing it for the money is way off base.
CLK - show me in any of my posts were I said the dogmen is killing the breed!! Never have I and do not put words in my mouth please.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

And luckily, weight pull is not the only event we do, we are not a one trick pony lol

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

What on leash sports are there? I can't think of any myself.
While there are occasional breedings done by sport dog people, they're pretty infrequent. It's hard for me to think of these as a threat to the breed. Ironically, it seems like more of the hardcore dog sport people are turning to game line dogs.
When I participated in bitework with my older dog, I found that many sport dog people were quite impressed by how friendly she was off the field, unlike many other breeds. I felt that if anything, we helped the reputation of the breed, not damaged it.

For those still concerned about the breed's reputation, here's my bitework dog, being a therapy dog, on the cover of a local paper.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

Conf. shows, weight pull, on-leash obedience & therapy services of various types are all on leash events that come right to mind.

As for you all participating in off leash events, you may be helping the breed - for now. But all it takes is one nano-second & everything you might have done for the breed - & then some - will be all be undone.

To me you're simply building a house of cards. You may succeed in building the house, but one puff & will all come crashing down. Yeah, the house looked neat & it was a feat for you to do it, but in the end no one won. Sadly however, the difference is in our case if the house "falls" the result will not be a simple case of scattered cards, but more BSL, more people turned against the pit bull, more ammo for people who already fear or hate the pit bull, more bans & more death for our dogs.

For example, I would love to get a BH or even a schutzhund title on Tiger. I think he could accomplish it & maybe even excel. But I will not do for it for a two fold reason.

1: I will not risk the him or the breed by doing off leash work.

2: I do not want to promote the idea of the breed as a "man-biter" or "attack dog."

Of course the latter reason is an entirely different coversation. But to stay OT, while I think he could do it & even do it well, I will not risk it. All it takes is one just second ...

But as I said before, we are all entitled to our opinions. The off leash fanciers are free to think & do as they wish. Nothing will ever change some folks' minds until an accident happens. Then it may be too late.

I myself just prefer not to risk it. There are too many on leash events we can excel in & that also generate GREAT postive PR. I learned that when Tiger got his CGC. It was totally on leash, but he was still featured in a print article as well as in a video in the online newpapers that reached at least 3 different counties!

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

While I love the house of cards analogy, and I think it is true for most people, I do think there are those that are qualified to train and handle these dogs for such situations. Sure, accidents happen, but I don't necessarily think that all of us should hide our dogs away either.

I love these dogs for their ability to be diverse and also for their drive to please their owner, which allows us to refocus that energy and shape it. While the DA is never gone or trained out, and in some cases it is not manageable, there are dogs that it is entirely possible for and those dogs need to be out there showing the public the GOOD side of APBT's. It's a double edged sword, if we do nothing to promote this breed in a positive light, then we will also deal with more BSL and prejudice. Unfortunately most people are not just willing to take our words for it, they have to SEE it to believe it at this point.

I just think the trainers/owners of these dogs need to be wise enough to know which dogs are good for these sorts of things and which aren't. As long as we do that and minimize the risk of accidents in any way we can at these competitions, I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?

Showdawgs... Can you not read... Tell me where in this post I said showdawgs is blaming dogmen for ruining the breed... I would have to say you are putting words in my mouth... Point blank off leash sports are not for this breed and don't breed dogs just because they are WP champs or have conformation titles because sooner or later those dogs will not be APBT's... And showdawgs read my damn post before you reply...

 

Re: Off leash dog sports & the APBT - opinions?