not trying to start another blue war. Just have a question.

I've paid cash for two APBT's I've owned. One is simply a house pet, the one I paid the most for, was a rank cur. In some avenues, she had made a reputation for herself as a talented, game dog. In deeper levels of the woods, she was ran out of the woods in a few minutes. The best dogs I have ever owned-were gifts, or earned in trade for work. A good dog doesn't have to be expensive, but you have better odds going with breeder who are proven to produce-no matter what the price. I really wish Evolution Kennels would post on this thread, a reply I've seen him post before. It was along the lines of "For a good home, I will GIVE a dog away. For some greenhorn who is bound to make every mistake in the book, you best believe they are going to pay for one of my pups".

Your also right, very rarely will working kennels sell their best stock. However, the fact is, no one knows as pups. I know many people who have given pups to friends and relatives to raise, after keeping their picks of the litter. 2 years later, they are paying big bucks to get back dogs THEY bred, and gave away for free. This would never happen if someone had the secret to which pups to keep. The only way to avoid this, is to keep them all. For some, that is not an option, and a few possible prospects are let go.

If you have no connections or haven't yet earned respect in the dogs, you best be willing to pay more than their close friends would pay. If a breeder only sells their junk, obviously, they are not going to be very popular after awhile. There are opportunities to pick up decent dogs from these men, but it's doubtful you will be getting an "ace". It may be a fantastic dog for you, but it wasn't good enough for someone elses program. One man's gameplug is another man's "ace".

 

Damn good post. My dog was a gift. Being in the right place at the right time isnt just a myth. It helps. I had to listen and learn for over a year before I was even invited to a show. I wasnt sure if I was gonna like it or not. Needless to say I loved it. Ive been devoted to the sport and the cause ever since that night. I dont agree with riding the fence though. I dont see how you can be on the right side of the fence and still breed curs. To me its one or the other. Ive heard of 50k being offered for a GrCh ROM dog. We're not talking coins here...If you really want a GOOD dog, take the time to learn what you're doing...IMO you'll have alot better luck.

 

Thats very true my friend I don't sell anything hardly and never pups. That was somthin my grandfather told me before We took over the dogs. To many stories of great ones being sold young and old and I would feel like an idiot buying back some I gave away. Fortunatly I have the space for alot of dogs and the means to care for them. I can only speak for myself but I want to leave my mark. I want that once in a generation dog, an ace of aces. That odds of that are slim but why would I make them slimmer by selling dogs and pups. Some of the proven ones that are not that caliber or have the potential to be and won't benifit my breeding program I don't mind parting with but only to the right people for the right price and I wouldn't lie about the caliber of the dog. Damn sure no greenhorn is getting somthin off my yard, only dogmen.

 

Man, the prices you put here are incredible... in Brazil a pure blood pet cost is about U$ 2.000,00 to U$ 10.000,00, many rare (here) as Zebo crossings costs even much more in a tested dog.

I think I'm going to USA in a near future to bring some dogs ...

 

Usually about $500 bargain basement for a dog with A.D.B.A. papers. Proven dogs cost more. Mayday blood is around $1,200 - $1,500. People who show thier dogs and put in work, want to be rewarded and they should be. Would I pay $500 for a pup from some shcmoe? Nah, If I'm gonna go that route, I'll pay extra, for the proven stock. Upkeep (time,effort,food) will generally cost more than the dog, so why spend it on a sub standard dog? You may save on the front end, but lose big time on the back end. Some dogs are worth 1k - 1.5k if you are looking to start a program. The fellow forum member with the game bred blues for $400 seems like a steal. He has a good outlook. Getting his dogs in good hands will probably benifit him more down the line than the little extra cash now. Honestly, I've been looking into the game bred blues, but they are harder to find than a good looking woman ,that cooks and cleans.
Prices out here for blues start at $1,000. All blue no white = $1,200 Blue with Blue eyes = $1,400. Blue and game? = PRICELESS

 

Sounds like you are paying too much for a dog. In my opinion, when you are paying that much, you are ususally paying for a name instead of a quality dog. There are breeders out there that are selling dogs for much less and are producing quality dogs. Hell, you can find dogs from quality breeders for free if you get in good with them.
Also, what is up with the game blues? Sounds like a gimmick to me. I'd rather get a dog from a breeder who doesn't focus on color PERIOD.

 

Yeah, you pay for the name. That's okay, if that name = quality. ( Boudreax, Patrick, Colby, Southern Kennels, Wildside, ETC..) You are right, they cost, and you will probably get a better dog for free if you are in with a quality breeder. But not to many newbies are in. Infact, a newbie will probably pay more because he is a newbie and a quality breeder won't farm / private treaty a dog to a newbie. Most respectable breeders will only do that if they are taking on a student / schooling a new dogman and want to open his / her eyes to a real dog. The bad side is once you start talking about head size and color, the more you are likely to get hung up on.
I'm not really sure about the prices of blues out here, I was making a play on the American Express commercial. ( I think you missed that) Although I think a true APBT (game,ability,mouth,wind and intelligence) that is blue, would be an excellent "TRAMP", considering the odds will be long against you. Never till now have I heard a breeder mention "GAMEBRED" & "BLUES", together. ( Sounds like a true oxymoron (THE WORDS NOT THE BREEDER)) Usually they mention color and size. ( Thats the part where I hang up on them. LOL) But I like the forum member with the gamebred blues', breeding philosophy, and thats the main reason I would give him a shot, without knowing him. If a breeder is trying his best to produce the best, I'll support him. If he's trying his best to produce a blue.... Well that sharp sensation he will be feeling in the seat of his pants, will be my foot helping him out the door.
Now I breed my own stock. Inbreed and line breed to preserve the blood. Still, just because the dog is related is not enough reason to breed, because I have enough to ensure what is bred, stands out as the best option.

 

Re: *Have a question.

last time i checked with p.p he wanted $1200 and t.g. wanted $900. just seems so excessive. they produce many litters a year and charge $$$ for profit. what is the difference from them and any byb?

 

Re: *Have a question.

They consistently produce bulldogs.

 

I best dog I every had I found. I just happened to be in the wrong place at the right time and there was a “dog fighting bust” in a not so good neighborhood I just so happen to be driving by. Being the curios person I am, I drove down the road to see why all the cops were there. Next thing I know there is this dog running down the road and the cops are occupied with arresting the people at the advent. The real reason I picked him up was I didn’t want him to be hit by a car and I planed to take him to the pound. He was in really bad shape and had many vet visits. That was my first every APBT.



I have never paid over $100 for a dog and I don’t think I ever will.

 

Some of my best dogs have been free or trades. Just because you pay a lot for it, doesn't mean it's worth it.

 

When I read the comment of how a breeder would not sell anything good off his yard, I am reminded of one the greatest breeders I have ever heard of, J.P. Colby. He was a sporting man, and he was also a breeder. He got as much a kick out of one of the dogs he bred winning for someone else as he would had it still been his.
Maybe times have changed. I know they have. Used to be people looked out for one another, now a days, folks look out for themselves.
If I knew a man was selling, or giving, away his trash, I'd call him a back yard breeder, and a sorry excuse for a bulldog owner! If you got trash, you should deal with it yourself, not pass it down the line. And if selling your trash is commonplace to you and yours, I am glad that I have never had the pleasure of meeting you face to face, and hope I never do. Folks who do that are sorry as the crap I picked up this morning from my chain spots!

 

Maybe not selling/giving trash, just not the best dogs they've got. Would you sell your ace? I think not.

 

For the right money, after getting our litters off him, why not? Nearly everything has a price. Am I going to take cash, a new chainspot, and put my old stud in a position to produce even more quality bulldogs....or should I let him rot on that chain, even though I've got the litters I want?

I've made it well known, we've GIVEN away one of the best dogs I've ever seen. Could of sold him to an idiot for thousands, or given him back to his breeder with an agreement, to showcase his abilities, and pups back. He was doing nothing more than sitting on a chain here, and the stock we wanted him bred to, wasn't here either. It would of been an injustice to him to not let him reach his potential. Whether that is sitting on the yard, or in the hands of an idiot with money, it doesn't matter.

 

How true .....

 

Ah...I think Rock answered for me. I just let one of my favorite females on the yard go. I am able to breed her, and get pups. As a matter of fact, when that was brought up, I was told they didnt want the dog bred nowhere else!
When a dog leaves me, I am doing a mentoring with the folks that get one 99% of the time. So most of them would tell you that if I ever wanted to breed/get a pup off of them, I am welcome to my pick. I develop relationships with these people, in the hopes of training responsible owners, and one day respectable breeders. I kinda have the mindset of JP, I love to see dogs that I have bred, or had my hand in them do well, do matter who owns them. As a matter of fact, it is more of a blessing to see someone else blessed with one of my pups that is doing well than for it to be with me. An old timer told me one time, "If the pups your throwin aint better than the sir and dam, you aint not breeder!" I really respected that man, and I have adopted the philosophy. So when a pup leaves my yard, I EXPECT them to be better than what is here! Thing is, you can look at peds all day long, and still not know what it is to be a good breeder. Good breeding isnt only in the lineage, that is just the starting point. The real test rests squarely on the parents and grand parents. That is why folks can get a few dogs from me, then go and try to breed them by the formula on the ped, and cannot figure out how their pups are not turning out like the ones I breed. And that right there my friend, is the secret to breeding, and why mentoring is so very important. It takes time around someone who has their head on straight about these dogs for you to learn how to be a breeder.
Any other way, and you may get lucky enough to hit and miss. And a person who is in this state of condition probably should not let their ace go, as it may be the only one they ever breed.
That is the way I see it.

 

I was a little curious in how you came up with your list? What were you basing it on? Just curious!

 

If you only get rid of your cold ones or your curs or your questionable ones, how reputable will you be in 2 years? No one is going to want a to waste their time with one of your dogs if all you ever do is give/sell your throwaways to other people.

**& when I say "you", it's in a general sense and absolutely not directed at anyone in particular

 

Re: *Have a question.

Thats the only differance right there!

 

Beside the first APBT I bought when I was 16 and new very little. I bought 2 dogs from to seperate breeders. I was also given dogs over the years from breeders I was friends with. The best dogs I ever had I gotten for free. This isn't a knock on the breeders it just goes to show you that you never now when or where you will get a good dog.