Not directly off gamedogs = Breed Standard?

Are APBT's not off direct descendents of gamedogs still APBT's?

Its a simple answer in my view but I wanted the forums view.

*delete the thread if its to much for the site rather then ban me please*

 

Do you think Amstaffs and APBT are one and the same dog

 

absolutely not but lets stay on topic

 

That is a good question, though I think there would be some grey areas in the dog itself. If I am understanding the question properly a dog that is no longer from proven parents would not have been bred the way they once were and no longer hold the meaning of thier name. Thus the dog becomes a shell of its former ancestors much like that of the AST.

From the outside with a straight black or white answer i'd say no but again there are shades of grey and it all boils down to the accual dog. JMO

Edit ( corrected spelling )

 

Depends on how far removed the breeding was from the dogs who met the standard. IMO 1 generation gap is all that should be considered. Unfortunatly the world is not a an APBT (Gamedog) friendly place. Meaning it is not benneficial to any of us to be braggin on our bulldogs and what it takes to be deemed a bulldog anymore....least not in public. remember those in the know,know.

 

DAMN good post man.

 

What are dogs off 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th gens removed from proven stock? How many gens away from bulldogs delute the standards the old timers kept, essentially creating another breed? How many gens away from bulldogs does it take, this is only opinion of course

 

It depends on the dog, his performance and ability to produce. But this happens usually when the inmediate family is also high quality and breed best to best.

 

Well, I know I'm probably going to take a sound roll for this, but I think a dog can be not directly descended from gamedogs and still be an APBT. Its like a double-edged sword, which we've discussed before, ad nauseum. We want to keep the breed around, but there are a lot of people who don't want any involvement in that side, so they select the dogs they want to keep based on what they can evaluate through legal means.

As it is nowadays, I guess I really don't understand why its even a question, except to continue and poke the rift in the community. People who keep standard-sized, well-built, agile, strong, fast, driven, sound-temperamented dogs which they show, pull, do trials with, etc., should not be made to feel as if they're doing the breed a disservice based on lack of a gamebred pedigree. I would imagine that a lot of people now have dogs who are generations removed from gamedogs, but if they're still breeding to some kind of standard which is close to the original, why should they be asked to call their dogs anything other than APBTs?

Again, I know its going to be an unpopular stance, but I don't care. The breed is being forced to adapt or die out. Especially in the wake of the Vick bullcrap, we've been reading about a new bust everyday it seems. I love my little Terra with her half gamebred ped, and am excited to have her. I love gamedogs, and I wish there wasn't the heat that there is on the game, because it scares people away from accessing well-bred dogs. But when it comes down to it, like my tagline, I'm looking forward. I'm interested in what my dogs can do now, and what kind of future they get to have. And no matter how they're bred, they're standard, so I will call them APBTs, proudly.

 

Personaly, I am all over with my thoughts on this subject. I understand and respect both Simms and Bahma's opinions on the subject. If that is possable:confused: lol. I guess I would say a dogs bred to the standerds Bahama mentioned could be considerd apbt, but not true working stock.

 

I respect your point of view. I even like the looks of Loki and what she can do.

Your right we are being forced to adapt or die out.

Are you going to the Denton show and if you are will you be bringing loki?

 

not even direct descendents of of gamedogs are APBT's (in the way you think about it) , only a few . I think APBT stands for gamenest , for couraje , for unconditional love , for a good and stable temperament , for intelligents, all raped around in a good looking package , that fits a standard . I think that these dogs need to work , and to earn the right to be called APBT's . I guess they are still APBT's , and deserve to pass on their genes as long as they work , and work hard . You can't select gamedogs , if you can't legal test for gameness . If you just paper-bred them , again , seems like a lot of work was put in for nothing. I think the main target for the APBT's now is to evolve and keep the pace , because as said in a previous post , this is not a pitbull friendly world . Theur main qualiti is the gameness , but have a lot of other qualities that need to be poped out of the old box .

 

The UKC show next weekend? I am going, but Loki is going to sit this one out. She's focusing on obedience right now, and I've found that she does better if she's not tired and pissy from travel. Priest and Terra will be competing in the conformation ring. Next time they have a weight pull down there and the pups are old enough to compete (after May), I'll probably bring all 3 down and pull them. Maybe.