Merle

Not to pick bones but can you link to any articles that list Merle Ch's or Gr Ch's of yesteryear ?

IMHO I think that would tell more of a story and support the evidence that merles were around and flourishing many years ago.

Again JMHO

 

Merle Ch's and Gr Ch's of yesteryear? LOL. Hell, I would accept a black and white pic of a rank cur as proof. One. Just one.

 

like i said, i ve discussed merles with a couple respected old timers at some shows (no i aint gonna drop names), and they are very convincing in the fact that they dont remember the merles being around, so WTF? i realize it could be the lines they were workin with, so i dont know what to think when some say they were around, but were culled, and other fellas say no way. for this reason i will never have any interest in them, i dont care how much of a bulldog the dogs in question may be

 

i dont think we will find any bona fide CH or GRCH for that matter due to the fact that i think most of the old timers, if they DID encounter the fluke merle dog, would cull them.

that said- i have seen 50/50 CLD and APBT dogs, and i would certainly feed one. for the color? no. for their working ability? yes indeed. good farm dogs

 

Hey, ABK why do you feel the need to speak in behalf of someone else's issue on this topic,which has nothing to do with you ?No one pointed you out yet for some reason you felt the need to answer every reply...Why? Did you sell them those mutts?

 

I think most would know that RR,but for those who obviously have not took the time to learn and understand breeding practices correctly,find it eraser to believe a lie,than to find out for themselves or maybe they just don't care.

 

If I was boar hunting i'd consider a Cat/cross, them are some hard working dogs.

And I agree, the oldtimers would have culled merles due to the health related issues and old wivestales. I just want to know when it became accpetable to be producing merle dogs today when it was unacceptable all them years ago. I think that is why alot of folks have issues with the merle in general...it seems more of a fad much like the blues than anything else.

A good dog is a good dog, I dont care what it looks like, if the dog can do the same job as any given dog bred of today then who am I to complain, the thing I frown on is the unscrupulous breeding practice of alot of these dogs born of today and that goes for any dog of any color of any bloodline.

 

Well said!

 

I still dont belive its acceptable today just some people like the color

but I havnet seen it on any dogmens yard Ive been to that have working
catch dogs

 

I do not think you are going to find any pics of merle CH. GR.CH. Like I said previously, a few folks used them, but they were "slow laners" & from what I understand merles that popped up in litters of serious dog men were culled. At least that is what I was told

And RR3000, last I looked, this was an open forum & as such any member can respond to any post they wish as many times they like so long as they are civil. I have bred & owned merle dogs for over a decade & studied the pattern for several years before that. It is obvious to me that the OP nor his wife have sufficient knowledge yet to answer the questions posed them, so I responded. I see nothing wrong with that. As for my dogs being "mutts" I have no found evidence whatsover thus far to prove that, nor do you have any.

But if you all want to read something interesting here is an account from a modern day dog man who ran only game lines who got a merle in his litter. Read on ...
___________________________________________________________________________

When I bred Ripper x Sambella

I waited on the pups and she was having them one nite at 2am in the morning I was sitting there helping her have the pups. As time went on I fell asleep and woke up in my chair that morning to see a site I have never seen in all over 20 years of breeding bulldogs. There was six red dogs with black mask and there was one black dog in that litter and then sitting right there in the middle of all of this was the d*mn-est thing I had ever seen.

A pup that was blue in color but spotted blue not solid. He looked like somebody had pinned him on the wall and got some of the deepest darkest blue paint there is and slung it on him as it was in big splotches and then it looked like some body painted under that with a light gunmetal blue solid and he had the deep dark blue patches also in little spots all over his body. .
Now if that is not enough as the dog got older he was a deep deep blue in color but that was in the shade if you took him to the sunlight he looked reddish in color and had a reddish tint.

I have seen blue dogs but this one was different and I could not figure it out. I started asking questions and started researching this and to my amazement a man from another country sent me a hand painted painting of bulldogs of nearly 200 years ago and the painting looked exactly like the dog that was in that litter of dogs same color same nearly every thing. He said that what had happen is that in that litter some how some way a gene has come from way way way back nearly two hundred years of breeding to that same very type dog that was called the blue phal fighting dog of nearly two hundred years ago.

Now what are the chances of that? Never seen it before and will never see it again AM sure. The pup died at about five months old for some unknown reason he was healthy as could be but one morning walked out side and he was dead in the kennel for no reason at all.

I myself don't give a hoot what people say about genetics if you are breeding a white like of dogs and there is a black dog in that gene pool some were maybe 200 years ago it makes no difference if that gene come forward them white dogs are gonna produce a black dog. If you are breeding a black line of dogs for 50 years noting but black and there is a white dog in that dogs bloodline some were again maybe two hundred years if that gene come forward you are gonna have a white dog if it connects.

It does not happen often AM sure but it is d*mn sure a possibility that is for sure. I have pictures of that pup and had people emailing me from all of the country not just bulldog people other breeds of dogs asking about that pup because that pup was never bred for color he was bred for other things it is a difference if you are breeding for color and you are not as to what can happen.

JMO

The School Teacher
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Pup's sire: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=15509

Pup's dam: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=17465

This dog man is still alive, so if anyone here wishes to contact him & see pics of his merle pup, I'm sure you can.

You can also contact the President of the ADBA NC club, he owns the red merle CH./Ace Polk Dot.

Or contact the folks at Texalina who have 2 merles off the Man o' Steel bloodline.

Steal Heart Kennels who are very active in ADBA events also had a merle named Blackheart, they are very nice people who are willing to talk to fellow fanciers.

There was a well known game dog kennel who owned a double bred merle & not only did they own her, they bred her & sold her pups. But I won't name names as I am pretty sure they don't want it told they owned, bred & sold pups off a merle. But a well known member here can verify this.

There was also a fellow fancier on here who has since been banned who had a really nice merle b!tch who was supposedly off the hook, but he kept his ownership of her really hush-hush.

All the above mentioned merles are off game bred lines. So if anyone has any questions, there are some leads for you to follow. You say you can't find any, now I've given you some. Happy hunting!

 

ok what was your point in all this?...I didn't say where they were from and i dont think ST starting breeding merles, and as far as those 2 peds you posted i didn't said that a merles wouldn't pop up.and i know i didn't say one may not be worth anything,but they are mutts when not in the right context...like being breed for solely on how they look and i don't think the dogs in question came directly off any line of standards within the 4th....that's what i mean...understand ?

 

good looking dogs man and welcome.

 

it's a color man leave it be. color don't dictate a dog.

 

LOL funnier by the minute.

 

That's true cameron, but a LOT of folks do not believe that here.

 

A dog man wouldn't cull just based on color,ever,if it would win in the box is what mattered,shoot,Rufus was deaf yet he wasn't culled,no whats a bigger fault?
Its common knowledge that catahoula crosses are used as catch dogs,and they have entered the apbt gene pool,mostly as alahapa blue blood bulldogs[sp],not saying it happens all the time but it surely has happened.

 

I would have to respectfully disagree with that statement, most dogmen of old did cull based on color at one point or another, alot were culled for being white, some for coming out blue or other odd colors, if it didn't fit to their liking it was gone!!!! As far as Rufus being deaf and not being culled, well that was a choice that his owner made and I am sure he is glad he didn't, lol....

 

i think the proof is in these dog,they surely have been bred back into apbt stock.i mean to think a dog man culled basically on color is wrong to me,if the dog would produce or do well in the box is what mattered,hell rufus was deaf and still used,got his ch and dogs are still bred off his ancestory today,now you tell me whats a bigger fault,deaf dogs or merle colored catahoula crosses?
heres a few examples of these cross bred mutts registered as pure.
merle bully.
merle staff


i mean merle pits are a newer phenomenon,were else did they come from,lets see merle apbts back in the old days,then id be convinced.

 

damn straight hes glad,so am i,but not all dogs were culled stricktly on color,if a dog would win was the real test,if these dogs did exsist weres the proof,im just saying my opinion which i believe to be correct,there definetly is catahoula crosses being registered as pure bred pits,and if its such a fault why isnt a defect in a catahoula dog,or a great dane?or a border collie for that matter?its a defect in the apbt because it showed up out of know where.

 

I don't really get what your point is, it's not about what is a bigger fault it is about the simple fact that even though those dogs you posted might have been bred back into the APBT that sure doesn't make them an APBT. Although it might seem wrong to you they culled for color it is a fact. The ones that were not of a color they liked never got a chance to work or reproduce THEY WERE CULLED! As for merles back in the day again if you find any pics of a merle from back in the day it will be a rarity as THEY WERE CULLED!! We do agree on one thing though, not all dogs were culled based on color, there were many other reasons..........