Maliks Gr Ch I.B.M.

Ch. Gambler's weak credentials?

Once again, Open To The World.
Advertised in SDJ as the best dog in the world up to 46#.
What do you have against Ironline?

 

Nevermind, I am sure you great reason to hate on IK.

Besides that, you do seem to be quite the expert on Ch. Gambler. As someone who has a yard full of his descendants, i would love to hear your first hand, pit side accounts of Ch. Gambler. I bet they are very interesting.

 

Yes great defender of IRONLINE i dont have a problem with him persay, but him acting like he is on top of the world with little credentials to float on... Insted of offering advice, IronMike knocks down any he can to look better...
This thread is ABOUT IBM and not Gambler, as a matter afact Gambler dont desearve a thread cause none of the followers made one...Speculation & Assumptions are made on jealousy and imagitive minds make themselves feel better when they knock down someones hard work... My point has been proven cause the followers only real fact is...
1.Gambler was open to the world at that time at 46#....
2.IBMs owner did not put any $ in on any of IBMs shows and was rewarded heavily for doing so...
3.IBMs last match in the virgin islands was for more than all the $ made by mike peddeling pups(for a certain color!)..
4. IBM wa sold for more that most could dream to the same one who backed him in the islands (just like his father)..
5.IBMs crew would have easily gone into Gambler if...
Non-Gamblers traveled to the V.I.s with a home loan to loose..
At that time people were coming from all over the world to see stiff compition and thats were the big $ came in...
The Individual islands hade beef with eachother and would do anything to beat their best dogs in front of a world wide audience and those St.croix boys were not pushovers...
WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, SOUNDS LIKE GAMBLERS BACKERS WERENT BIG ENOUGH GAMBLERS TO MAKE IT TO THE ISLANDS....IBM DIDNT RETIRE AFTER HIS SIXTH, HE WAS OPEN TO THE WORLD(in the journal of coarse,lol)...
IBM DIDNT RETIRE IN THE ISLANDS, HE RETIRED THE WORLD....
Stone Citys Nico quit to IBM, BUT Stone CITY basically based thier yard on Nico with great results celebrating thier 30th anniversary... I DONT BELIEVE THERE TO BE A DOGMAN ALIVE THAT HAS A YARD SOLELY BASED ON IRONLINES STOCK THAT IS KNOWN TO COMPETE IN TODAYS COMPITITION,AT LEAST ANY THAT ANY REAL DOGMEN HEARD OF...Deabate this one followers, IRON MIKE singel handedly took a working breed and bred it for color...
The first to do so, set a trend of color brings more value for the blues(tri bullies etc...) for sole purpose of $...
This practice makes good lines go extinct quick... The first follower, Morgan at RedInferno did just that with them...
No real dogman ever respected these guys and Iron Mikes greed and narrow minded kennel/color blindness boxed him in the wrong corner... Color kept him from using proper outcrosses until it was too late,now his line is hanging on by..
IBMs THREAD!!!
Now back to real dreams, who would you breed to??the ACE IBM or his cousin the FREAK JOEY, and why???

 

Color breeder? Lmao.
There is a reason Red Devil dogs were used, and it sure as hell wasnt for their pretty red nose.

They were one of the only line of dogs that could consistently stand up to the power of Eli dogs.

Probably why Floyd liked the cross so much.

Since you brought it up, do your research on IK's work with Boudreaux blood...i guess those were color breedings?
Or Ch. Hagler (black dog)
Or Ch. Red Iron (black nose)
Etc Etc Etc

Your color breeder statement holds no validity, due to one glaring problem in your theory...IK won with those "red dogs", and were successful with other lines.

 

I'd go with Joey because of the Gr. Ch. he beat to become one himself. Not an easy call..... but one I'd probably make.

 

Color breeder........LMFAO!!! You just lost all credibility with that statement. Obviously, you have something against IM........and I doubt he even knows who you are LOL. Keep dreaming and hating on a real dogman, but it won't change a thing...you're still going to walk away butt hurt.

 

Is this still going on?
Eliaspistola still cur snapping?
I see he still talking about everyone else's dog other then his own.
What is all this crap about other people's pedigrees? None of his to speak about?


I personally love how he compares Malik to Yankee Boys. lmfao! Yup what a fool to down play dogs like Yankee Boys' Gr. Ch. Art and Yankee Boys' Gr. Ch. Mammy.
Ya, they had at least 2 grand champions and Malik only had 1.
This isn't including all their champions that Malik never had.Y
es, Joey was much better then IBM and as comparing males to females like Gr. Ch. Koko isn't good to compare. Specially when the person doesn't have access to the information because it was all before his time. Pepsi Generation dogman.


One question, for all the dogs Yankee Boys had and was open to all why didn't Malik ever take one of them?
Ch. Blondie 4xw (Ch. Beatle Juice brother), Ch. Indy, Ch. Mechanic, etc.?
To make a post as this guy is doing is funnier the hell!


Brag away kid. But it will never changed the fact as appeared in SDJ best dog up to 46# and no one and I mean NO ONE wanted Ch. Gambler at that time!
Not IBM or Ch. Doggie DOY and both was offered more then one time.


So the excuses he use by stating they went else where to win, they could have came back took one of the other many offers.


No it never happened but it was because those dogs weren't really open to the world with real dogmen. But it was very well known who was willing and who wasn't.
You can't rewrite history and make out how great a dog was went they weren't taking all comers who was known to the world.


No need continuing this, both are dead and long gone. As for who was the better Pit Dog will be debated but there is one thing that can't be debated, (who was willing and who wasn't) to prove their worth. Ch. Gambler finished ever dog he met in money or bump but 2 and both had to leave in 10! Yes all 4 for money bite the dirt nap. The others can't make this claim.


Now it was fun watching all the garbage of pedigrees posted, but I find it funny someone posting and talking about Adam's Gr. Ch. Art and he never seen Art go or Ch. Mike or Ch. Joe, etc. as I have.


I think it is clear to everyone reading he is a novice dog person.
So dream on about other people's dogs of which you never was around.
Since both dogs are dead the only thing left is their desendents, lets see which ended up better.
Dogman up and scratch..gl

 

BTW GPK about Boudeaux dogs produced from IK stock, Untouchables' Ch. Cotton, JR.'s Ch. Tank, Bulldog Inc.'s Ch. Earl, etc. and the many winners. All reported. Oh ya and the 4xw Elders' Uno. The list could go on and on. Bottom line, I don't think I.M. was much of a fancier of breeding and never made to much of a claim being of being one. More of a believer of "Proof is in the Performance."
Only color he liked was at the end and it was green.

 

I would say Joey as well, he was a beast(called the greatest dog of the 90's)and I really like the Hammonds stuff in there, lovely blend. Both dogs Joey and Cracker have nice peds and good dogs behind them. How about a line bred Cracker male bred to tight Bd Joey female, or vice versa. While checking the posted pedigrees I saw that ILK did use GrCh Bd Joey in at least one breeding done with some of their Boudreaux stuff(heavy Boze) looked nice. Ch Gambler was a Ch, and was open to the world nothing wrong with that, seems since Gr Ch IBM's contests made a well known publication(for good reason) more is publicly known of his exploits than Ch Gambler, very hard to speak of things unseen with ones own eye. One thing is for sure, we will never know. I think LoneWolf summed it up very well.

 

Good honest answer...

 

Great response redwar...

 

Being a bloodline fanatic that always asks why???
I like both peds alot and can really admire all LAUBs JESSIE bulldogs...
I would go with IBM cause of the class that he showed and I think even though the peds are very similar...
They are worlds apart in the style the ped intels...Jessie with SATCHMO on top and bottem with one of my favorites on the bottem the one and only Holts Jeremiah, who had alot of classy dogs come down from... Maurice was noted for saying that ARTs MISSY added alot of class to the bullyson dogs, he also said the IRONHEAD dogs were more complete than most Bullyson dogs, Hence the SATCHMO on top and bottem i refered to...
Now, Joey was also a first class dog... Jessie with DutchBoy on top and bottem, which say one thing...
"destruction" as DutchBoy dogs are known to be one sided and im sure Jessie heped balance that out better...
IBMs SATCH blood on the bottem thru PALADIN is known for basically the same thing, but not as destructive...
Both DutchBoy and Paladin dogs are known to be super rough curs and alot of Joeys offspring showed that trait..
It seemed Ibm didnt retain that from the Paladin as much as Joey did from the DutchBoy blood...
Ibms offspring were classy, while Joeys were rough as the pedigree intels and not until they added the Dirty Mary dogs did the Joey dogs start showing to be better rounded... Food for thought, they both outcrossed well...

 

Ped wise I like IBM better.... and believe me... I thought about what Joey produced too. But Texas was a hell of a bulldog and his owner a class act IMO. He got the edge for that win.lol

 

Yes, but just off what I known of IBM's children I think I would pick him. I also love his resume as far as what he accomplished it might not be as great as Joey's but it isn't far off it.

 

What about any of Bd Joey stuff or Cracker bred to any heavy, Gr Ch Virgil stuff?(Gamblers)(ex Bd Joey x Raptor etc) or tight Banjo dogs(DSK blood), or some McCool or LG blood seems those might have nicked well, anyone gone to the Carver side? anything of note produced when/if breeding in this direction?? What type of blood was Joey's best litter out of? What About Cracker and IBM? Sorry if this is a bit off topic.

 

The IBM/Cracker dogs crossed with the Joey dogs sounds like DREAM and a nice balance indeed...
The smarts and gameness from the ART/Laubs Jessie and the devestation of the DutchBoy & Paladin...
The IBM & JOEY dogs crossed well with the Dirty Mary dogs and Dawnrest also crossed Maniac nice...
Anybody have any of this blood???

 

Go ahead and add my name to the list if you find it right.

 

Were the Doucet dogs ever crosse into any ofrn or red boy stuff?

 

Elias Pistola it' not about defending someone but about I.M.'s opinion of IBM. I.M. doesn't need to offer advice on a public forum, for what? Once again that's what you think he should do, so what! The fact still remains IBM ducked Gambler, Gambler was open to the world and neither IBM nor Gambler had to meet in the Virgin Islands because they were less than four hours away from each other here in the States!

Pistola you keep bringing up I.M. breeding for color only...REALLY? I guess owning Ch Rascal's littermate brother and several closely related offspring doesn't count? I guess owning well bred Jeep dogs with black noses doesn't count? Oh did I mention owning a particular segment of the Boudreaux dogs to this day that Floyd no longer owns or has access to doesn't count, right? You talk about breeding for color only makes a line go extinct real quick well last time I checked what you considered breeding for color produced over a dozen champions, half dozen grand champions and many many winners! Maybe the question Pistola you need to ask yourself is if your breeding methods have yielded the same results? Another question you can ask yourself is if the breeder of your dogs had the same success as I.M's breeding for color did? To go even further ask yourself in you all of your dog's pedigrees what breeder has has had the same success as I.M.?

BTW for the record there are breeders who have Ironline stock that compete today and with success! I.M. never bred for color he bred for WINNING! If he had as much success as he did breeding a certain way to certain dogs why change? He had access to many dogs and his formula wasn't breeding to a certain color it was breeding WINNING dogs and to continue WINNING! You bring up Morgan and Red Inferno like they ever won or produced dogs that won so that comparison flew out the window with no validity! I.M. never had any greed or color blindness because I mentioned some of the different familys/lines that he owned and if they could have improved, kept him in the winner's circle or needed for an outcross don't you think he would have to continue WINNING? Pistola you speak in past tense about the pure Red Devil dogs to this day which exists and the quality is the same that produced champions, grand champions, winners, por and rom dogs! What you don't know is I.M. doesn't sell those dogs to the general public and very very few have them!

It's been awhile since I have seen IBM's name in a pedigree of any dog let alone a winning dog today! Last time I checked neither the owner or the breeders behind IBM's first three generations has produced champions, grand champions, winners(plural), por and rom dogs! Trust me I see this hate for I.M. on a regular basis on many boards but I never see anyone who does the hating as successfull or the breeders of their dogs as successfull as someone who supposedly breeds for color! Love or hate but it can never change history or what has been accomplished...WINNING!

 

FACTS ONLY. Great Post.