Littermate breeding info?

I tried to reply more but I'm havin a problem with some of my sentences not showin up as I type. Was in a groove and forgot what I typed.

 

Personally I enjoy seeing them type but under caution as one I believe should keep the whole litter and cull as they would any other. I see we seem to say this does not work then follow with but there is always an exception loophole for words of you will. Many old n many new have nbwill so such rest and not so great. I believe it is very important that to have first hand knowledge of the dogs the are off but for me I can say yo should treat sibling breedings any different then any breeding now seek or accept certain traits of you wouldn't in another dog but Our dogs are not bred to be brood stock as that is a title earned and for Us a dog shows Us it's worthy of being brood stock. Many a great words are shared within the comments and then many many bad are being imprinted. Only the Best.

 

The DNA for each dog will be and is different as it is for you the coat color is not a connection.

 

C I should clarify I was agreeing with the last part of caj post.

 

I am no DNA expert lol.never really found it that intersting.

 

Well of course it will be slightly different unless it's twins. My point is what does having dogs the color and look of the namesake of the family mean besides that you have alot of dogs that look like so and so? The only way I'd roll with the theory is if I thought a dog looking like a dog would equal same performance. Not sure FB said breed the red eli dogs to the black, I do however know he said when a red one pops up in a litter you better keep it.... So in a sense that is opposite of what we are talking about.

 

Well here my take on it. Over the years I have seen more BAD than good come from it firsthand! Something I would never recomend anybody doing ! Now that being said I know Victor W. did some seriously tight breeding to produce the grand dame of Toranado! That is the exception! Then if you don't do some at times tight linebreeding you loose what you have plain and simple! After all that's how strains are developed!!!!! My preference is half bro. to half sis. I'm hoping for exceptional athletes but it's low percentage. What I value most is my gyp line that's what I try to preserve! So I will cull all but the healthiest then outcross, there are never any guarantees! It's whats worked best for me, others might do it different and that's OK you have to have faith in how your doing it!! Littermate breeding is what it is........it should only if ever be attempted by those with a lot of breeding experience or supervised by someone. One of the best producing gyps I've had my hands on was ART X LITTLE JAVA!
Kind of off topic whats up with all the FLAMING on this site??? Nothing is ever going to be settled typing back and forth trying to get the last word in! Could be A sign of to much inbreeding!!! LOL

 

Simple answer is you have to own dogs.

 

That would most definatly help! LOL Other wise it would be like opening A whore house and operating it by hand until you got some girls! LOL I just have A twisted sense of humor!!!

 

[Qwasn't ="TROTLINE, post: 746666, member: 35340"]That would most definatly help! LOL Other wise it would be like opening A whore house and operating it by hand until you got some girls! LOL I just have A twisted sense of humor!!![/QUOTE]
I wasnt offended Trot .

 

Seen this done a few times... Saw 3 littermates get bred up....the first time the female the bro x sis didn't share similarity, and the pups came out fine....tried again with different brother that pulled like his sis from same side of pedigree of the original mom....this was too tight and a smaller litter 2 really nice male 4 really bad girls.....defect wise....sweet as could be other than that....out of the males they where picture perfect, and keepers at that....crossed everything after that....have one no own off a bro x sis breeding.....keeper,also one off a mother x son.....keeper as well. Out of the bro x sis 6 were born only the 1 I have is around due to defects...so far so good for her. She's hard headed but most are..out of the mother x son 3 were born...mines for sure is a live wire....sometimes I do think her screws are loose she can bark for hours if on the chain and not with bark collar on, take her off a separate her from the others and she's fine.....jm2c

 

From a genetics standpoint, the increased risk of hereditary health problems (as in problems they can pass to offspring) when breeding father-daughter, mother-son and sibling-sibling is around 15%. This means in a litter of 10 pups you'd expect to cull 1-2 pups right off the bat due to disease, illness, weakness, temperament defects etc. That doesn't include the risk of recessive issues surfacing, of which the risk is doubled unless you can afford to run a full genome sequencing like Mr Garner does and find out whether your dogs are carriers. Half-brother to half-sister, cousin - cousin etc are around 6-8% risk of hereditary health problems. These are rough figures obviously but the point I'm making is close breedings are always a roll of the dice and the percentages I've listed are averages which means you can expect to have no problems and at the same time you can expect to lose almost an entire litter without them even making it to a test. Use your better judgement and set your standards higher than usual, because any little issue is only gonna make itself worse down the track. Don't get me wrong though, I ain't knocking inbreeding. Hell that's how most strains were started in the first place. I'd just urge anyone considering going down that track to really do their research, question whether it is really the best option and be prepared to deal with the worst case scenario

 

That ending is How We should Always go into Every breeding No matter their genes. I have been lucky enough that with inbred dogs we have had little issues but then I'm only used to close family bred types and small litters I've been around many not family bred and seen the same issues as with closely related every breeding is a roll of the dice Ur can help them numbers as mentioned with Using Good Judgement with All you do by way of seeking knowledge and testing ways and Use Only. keyword Only the best of Them. If U are n they r healthy right mind n right in Bert and off parents free of issues then these new ones should be as well if they aren't never be afraid to go bk and research and keep an open mind when searching. Let no ones words shape your thoughts more then what your eyes have shown and that that the dog has shown

 

Its hard to base if you should inbred on a pedigree alone but its a good indicator if the blood is tight or loose which should help steer the decission...

I have dealt with two cases in which a father daughter breeding was done,,,
with completely different lines with the same pedigree formula of father ex daughter off father to a half sibling...

So in other words the daughter was out a half sister....

Now in practice I would also combine other attributes including one most might overlook,,, COLOR...

One father daughter was of a liver colored dog to his white daughter whom had a red nose,,.
now to me being white is fine and same as having a rednose but the two seem a step away from
a dudley nose and two steps away from being albino...

so as anticipated breeding the liver father to his white daughter doubled up on the white genes that I try to avoid,,,
most of the litter was white,,, def,,, dumb and blind so to say...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=175916
this dogs sister was bred back to their sire boomer with bad reults and otherthan that boomer produced fine...
as you see they are from a half bro ex sis breeding to begin with bred back to the sire similar to this one that had great results...

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=99923
a whole lot of inbreeeding here from weeerdo to whiskeeey and preeeeacher...
a littemate to ding ding and very uniform jeep family that inbred just fine...

The Redboy and the Jeep lines seem to inbred better than others and a cross of the two made for more longevity inbreeding...

The 357 dog is another great example a succesful inbreeding ,,, and macho buck is a fine linebreeding off that...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=407865

 

Something also worth mentioning is inbreeding lowers fertility rates, which means smaller litters and eventually infertility. If you're breeding for yourself smaller litters doesn't matter much though. I think this may be a factor in why we hear in a lot of historical articles "such and such dog was bred to these studs but the litter never took", along with incorrect reading of the heat cycle.

 

I don't think we should ever care about size of litter. Very. Yes size of litter NEVER EVER.

 

My partner of 25+ years did this breeding and all the dogs turned out well. Those who aren't breeders don't understand inbreeding produces doesn't produce broodstock but the average of the family most of the time.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=453310

Ch Buckboy is a very good dog from a consistent rbjbt family from producers and performers. Not ot take anything away from his accomplishments but contrary to all the OFRN heaters and doubters before and after he received his championship he still isn't the quality of this OFRN dog.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=265682

 

Like I said, unless your aim is to peddle pups (which it shouldn't be) or you have a deal with someone else to send some pups, I agree. I just wanted to put it out there as something worth noting

 

I need to breed mine tighter then, I've had two litters in last two years and both were 10 each. I'd have been alot happier with 10 total lol

 

I like your post crazyhorse and agree breeding tight should produce the average of the family,,,
and for very few exceptions the tighter its bred multi generational the older the blood with out new outs,,,
it seems that that old family blood does breed for brood stock more than performance and needs that out to rekindle the fire...