Interesting Article on currs

Bahamutt - I may have missed it, but no one said you were not informed about the breed & no one knocked you for what you do w/ your dog. It's just that some of us can't get over the fact that a person wants a dog that is not dog aggressive & then goes out & gets a breed that has been bred for dog aggression. Like blingz said, it's like wanting to take a shower, but not get wet.

As for the "hot" dogs, I have had several that would tear into another dog at the drop of a hat & showed plenty of proper drive, but they sure as heck didn't drag me around at any shows! They knew heel, watch me & leave it. But I'd be kidding myself if I thought they wouldn't hit a dog in a minute.

Also, as a side note, I don't know if you know this or not, but under certain judges if a dog doesn't show any dog drive it will not be placed. Absence of proper drive is considered a lack of what they call "true bulldog attitude" & it is considered by some judges to be a fault.

 

I can respect a well-mannered dog, and see your point in full bahamutt. With the way our breed is conceived, I personally dont (and refuse) to take a cranked up dog anywhere its going to be seen. Some pups, and cold dogs are the only ones I bring out in public. A bulldog show is another matter, I've never attended one, however, those are events staged for our dogs, and its natural to see cranked dogs. If the wrong people are at those shows, looking for problems, there is nothing you can do. They have their mind made up on what they are going to see, by attending a show of dogs they can't accept for how they act.

 

ABK - Yeah, that's probably why Loki has never placed in Judge's Choice. (Well, that and I don't usually have her conditioned, and there are usually at least 20-30 dogs in those classes.) She could honestly lay down and take a nap while there are a dozen bulldogs around her calling each other all kinds of names. She just doesn't care. A little more enthusiasm would be nice, but I can't blame her for not seeing the point of just standing there.

Rock - I try not to down ADBA shows. I can appreciate that there is an environment where the dogs are allowed to be themselves. I do think that this is not the best image to show people, because a lot are going to look at that and think "Wow, those dogs really are dangerous! Look at them trying to kill each other!" If my dog were doing that, the most natural thing in the world would be for me to say "Cut the crap!" and put her at heel. I don't expect that all my future dogs will have Loki's easy temperament, but they'll behave. And I basically treat my dogs like they're hot anyway, and take what precautions I can. I never want to be on the giving end of what happened to Loki at the last ADBA show we went to, so I'm careful.

 

Nothing wrong with the scratch to win thing but Tudors Spike is a cur for many and Tudor bred him. And I think Tudor put some good on the ground or? For others is a dog that dont scratch to a dead dog a cur, and in fact a dog can lose to the dog he killed before if he dont scratch on his dead opponent.I find that simply stupid. Another worse thing is to test a dog in several rolls until he is destroyed before his first match. Let him fight against a bigger dog, against 2 dogs in short order, then the next day still swollen and then again and so on...for me are those fast lane experts just morons. The roll should just give a mild idea how the dog act. 10 min should be enough if you dont know enough in that time try another hobby. The test is the match and you alone should say after the match yes I bred this dog or no I dont . There are to many so called experts out there. (For historical purposes only)

 

There probably were many dogs ruined then from rolling to hard/to much.

Think of Pavlov. What'd he teach us about dogs? It's all association. If everytime a dog stepped in the [] it got the sh*t knocked out of it and the floor wiped with it's face, then it won't be as inclined to compete with enthusiasm. But if the first few times it dominated and wasn't put so far behind, then it (by genetic make-up) should look at it as fun, and begin to want to compete/scratch.

I would think, that before laws changed, that you could use a bunch of smaller 'rolls' to hone the dogs skills, both defensively and offensively, using smaller, larger, and different skilled opponents. But you take the dog to the well too many times, it'll eventually quit/cur/form a negative association.

As for the old timeres that might've bred curs, I don't know about all that. I'm no dogman, so I'm no autority on the subject.

Anyone please feel free to correct my thinking if it needs to be.

 

CaJack said about the exact same thing in an article I ran across last night Kergin.

I don't know about a few "tune-up" rolls between hard ones. A gamedog does not know when its losing, a truely game dog is winning all the time in its eyes. Thus, all your doing in the above example,is putting them against lesser opponents. If you train at a lower level, you will compete at a lower level.

 

Yes a truely game dog is winning all the time in its eyes....until he dies. A hard opponent ok but carefully and under close observation, dont take the best out of the dog before he is ready for his first match , dont stop the dog before he started. Truely game means not indestructibly , the dog has only 1 body and 1 mind. And as the history has showed us a good Bulldog is a natural born fighter he need not much training at all. (for historical purposes only)

 

Rock, you make a good point. Like why would a 130 lb kid in HS wrestle a 112 lb kid at practice? There'd be no gain in the exercise/competition (for either party), and if they're in peak condition, then that wouldn't benefit them in any way, shape or form.

If I was alive back then, I'd probably not go the route of rolling that often. Hell, if the dog really had to dig deep and 'get it's oil checked,' I don't know how inclined I'd be to make it compete again; I'm talking if the dog was on the brink and still had a smile on it's face.

What would be the gain of then taking it to the [] if it truly proved itself to you? Would you risk the dog not having enough gas for that go? Or would you let it live life and breed it.

(again, we're all roll playing like it's 1975 here )

 

I'm into gamedogs, not match-dogs. Once a dog had proven his worth to be, thats it. There is no need to match a dog you have seen everything you need to out of, aside from titles and betting. For some folks, thats what makes a good dog. To me, not so much. The only reason I would put out my weight pre-75 would of been if I had one I COULD NOT gametest, and was ruining all my own stock. If you have that monster who can run through 3 of yours all day long, open it up, let it kill someone elses dog! Chances are, it will run into one bad enough to test it eventually. No matter how bad you think your dog is, there is always one that will beat it. And for every dog that could beat yours, theres dogs that would beat it, so on and so forth.

 

A 130-pound kid generally knows he's going into a smaller one. The same isn't necessarily so for a bulldog, and if it is, they don't often seem to care. A dog's confidence can be broken just as easily as it can be built. Confidence goes a long way in a show, and the occasional booster certainly doesn't hurt.

And to address the question of taking one to the ring after it's already proven itself: Pride and/or money would be the simple answer. Or maybe just solely for the joy of watching one work, although pride usually plays quite a role in that as well.