I need some help!

Moderators of this board, please help me out with this. The thread by SatZombie looking for a stud dog, was closed because ya'll said it was getting out of hand. It was mentioned "just help him out with a stud" "don't criticize him". I feel the criticism was both beneficial & warranted. The problem we have to face with this breed today is WAY to many people breeding unchecked, unpapered, poor represenatives of this breed. If you disagree then PROVE me wrong. I don't see anything wrong with trying to educate people on when & why to breed. Just because your dog can produce a litter it does'nt mean it has to. All of the negativity in that thread is due to the backpedaling done by the threads author when questioned on why he was wanting to breed. The truth is'nt always painless, but should always be a necessity. Especially with this breed. Maybe the criticism could of been handled a little less abrasively, but I feel everyone on the thread spoke with respect. (for the most part). I understand ya'll don't want this forum to go to shit like a lot of the message boards have gone. However, we, as responsible owners & breeders of these dogs have to take the responsibility of leaving this breed better than we got it. Just my 2 cents. SFK

 

I am not a moderator but I agree 150%.

 

i closed the thread sfk. i agree with what you said all the way but the thread is getting way of the subject.i will open it back up but the subject needs to stay on the topic.if not it will be closed.

 

No need to re-open the thread. My point was only to try and explain the reason that some chastised him for wanting to breed the bitch.

 

yeah i understand an fully agree with not breeding unless both have proven themselves to breed.

 

Whoah, I just had this *discussion* with a bonehead at work! Woman was adamant that we not neuter her quarantine dog (bite) because "we have a girlfriend line up". I wasn't particulary polite...my response was; "why so I can kill the pups for you?" Don't get me wrong, got nothing against responsible breeding, but I live in alaska folks, why are there so darned many pits here??? And this was a fabulous dog who may have produced some great pups...but maybe not (bite was deemed accidental but the aco still required neutering as a condition of release...just because she could, she's a former kennel flunkie like me...who loves my job). And what about all of the adults I get in daily that can't be adopted out because some idiot didn't socialize, or housebreak, or you fill in the blank...

I agree, those of us who live with these wonderful dogs have an obligation to society to both educate the general population and the jerks who continue to use this breed as a status symbol...and I get a lot of that where I work.

"Ya'll got any pitbull or rottweilers?" Usually an adolescent male with more testosterone than college credits.

Nope, not for you!

I'm sick of the fools who give these dogs such a bad rap. And don't even try to defend the subject of fighting with me...I'll tell you to take off your shoes (just to make it an even playing field, cause when I kick you in the head...) and meet me in the parking lot...you like a fight, bring it on babe (I study karate). Just don't expect me to respect you in the morning....or splint your broken bones...or call an ambulance.

A bit aggressive...that's me where the animals are concerned.

I do have one problem though with this board. I have noticed that a lot of the avatars depict pits straining against heavy chains...why? None of my dogs are ever chained and I think this promotes a negative stereotype. As an amimal tender, I have been trained to spot potential fighters and this is something I look for (heavy chains, dragging tires, treadmills, etc). My guys have never tried climbing my fence, although I know they can climb like cats.

In fact in our home, we even go so far as to lock our car to prevent our dogs from being stolen from some idiot wanting "bait".

Yeah, potential breeders should be raked over the coals just so they can get the grey matter between their ears working!

"nough said...BarbH

 

Not trying to stir the shit again, but when you have a yard of dogs, chains is the way! My dogs have know problem living in a chain space, & I spend tons of time with each of them individually every single day. Please don't get on the "chains is cruel" soapbox, it is an undeniable aspect to the breed & not at all up for debate with anyone who respects this breed as much as they love it.

 

The avatars are mostly pre-defined "great-dogs" not neccessarily peoples OWN dogs...

Not sure how it all works but it's a "point" system and it's JUST pictures to choose from, some people do have custom Avatars...

 

Gotcha...

But sorry SFK, I understand about multiple dog households...I have eight. NEVER chained a dog, never had a dog roam...don't know why. Only put up my fence 'cause I could (and what a lot of physical work that was!!!).

The Avatars are still repulsive to me. But then again I am a middle aged woman with more grey hair than grey matter. I see these dogs as cute and cuddly AND strive to promote this image.

I've actually had people cross to the other side of the steet when I've taken one of my dogs to town on a leash! And my guys are soooo good with people...and other dogs.

Just hurts my feelings...right, wrong or indifferent.

BarbH

 

“ I have noticed that a lot of the avatars depict pits straining against heavy chains...why?"
Can you truly tell the weight of a “heavy chain” from a picture? Also how many link of the chain is the dog actually carrying (weight wise)?<O:p</O:p

“And don't even try to defend the subject of fighting with me.”
Why not? Seems to be right up your alley, with all the treats you are spewing. Why would you even mention that subject?<O:p</O:p

“None of my dogs are ever chained”
That’s good, but does that mean every other dog should not be? What is wrong with a proper chain setup? <O:p</O:p

“I think this promotes a negative stereotype.”
Does “negative sterotype” make it wrong or an improper way to contain a dog? When in fact that is because of all the brain washing the media and humane society groups (which you work for) have put into people head, with the spreading of their lies and half-truths? In reality a proper chain setup is more humane, offer greater exercise for the dog, more human contact, and they seem a lot happier on them versus stuck in some 6’ X 8’(if that large) cage.<O:p</O:p

“My guys have never tried climbing my fence, although I know they can climb like cats.”
That is good, but that option is available to them though (which it should not be, right?).<O:p</O:p

You are preaching about how chains are not the best choice and such. But have never revealed you depth of knowledge in the breed. How much experience you have, nor the breeding (bloodline of your dog/s).<O:p</O:p

“I see these dogs as cute and cuddly AND strive to promote this image.”
These dogs are not supposed to be “cute and cuddly” and never should be. These dogs are performance-orientated canine athletes, which should be used and worked in any manner that their owner chooses for them as long as it is in accordance with the law.

 

Austin's Mom. I'm glad your dogs get along so well. Do you mind if I ask their ages? & are they all full-bred APBT's? I'm in no way knocking you or your dogs, I swear, it's just that in my experience with this breed, & I don't think I'm alone hear... These dogs HAVE to be individually confined as adults. Even I would say as adolescents. Starting from the age of 7 to 10 mnths. If you've never had a problem your lucky. As a person who learned the hard way, never under-estimate this breeds love of combat. I feel it is extremely egotistical for anyone to believe they can change in a few years what has been bred into the blood of these dogs for centuries! I don't know how long you've been around these dogs, but I promise you you will eventually run into a tried & true gamedog. It may not come to you as a rescue, it may be a pup given to you by a friend, or you might find it going thru the trash somewhere, but mark my words one day that dog is going to get into a confrontation with another one of your dogs or some other unfortunate dog somewhere, & then it will realize what it was born to do. Then maybe you'll understand why these dogs must be kept on chains, kennels or cable runs.

 

could'nt agree with you more.

 

they are working bulldogs................and if you dont like the avatars, then dont look at them

 

I wonder if she's ever seen a pic of Mnt. Man's Homer!

 

I work for an animal shelter, not a humane society, big difference. I handle thousands of dogs each year...many, many pits. And I've fostered quite a few.

Two of my pits are pure bred and I haven't a clue about their lineage as they were all strays when I adopted them. One of my dogs is a pure rott, one is a little football with legs and the rest are pit mixes...one of which is more gamey than any dog I've ever worked with or owned. The only reason she's still with us is because she's so highly trained I can call her off in an instant and she's daddy's little darling. And the only female because she's inter-female aggressive, too.

And yes, I've had some real, real disasters and broken up more fights than I can remember, both at home and at work. I purposely don't mix the pits in playgroup because I fully understand gameness.

I counsel ALL the potential pit adopters if I'm on shift that day and tell them everything you've just said. However, we do not advocate chaining unless you've got a climber/roamer. And I never encourage people to adopt any dog unless everyone who will be living with it comes in for a meet and greet, including all resident dogs. And I explain that just because the initial meet goes well, pits can change in the blink of an eye. My advice in multiple households is learn your dogs body language like the back of your hand and never, ever believe that your dog is the exception to the pit rules and would never fight (or bite). That way they can redirect the building aggression.

Maybe this aversion to chaining comes from the fact that I live in sled dog territory (dog mushing) and these are the most pathetic dogs you've ever seen. There are some great mushers who actually train their dogs to come back, but most do not and the only time in their lives they are off a chain is if they are hooked to a sled.

Fighting?? Probably because I just came back from a training conference about this subject with undercover cops. I see dogs come in every once in a while who are obvious fighters. They never get redeemed, we'd get id on the owner. We also occasionally find pits in isolated locations who've been shot. They probably are dogs that didn't make the grade.

And I don't care too much for cock fighting or stallion fighting...yeah, horses. It's a big thing in Korea.

No, I don't pay much attention to the avatars, just like I don't pay much attention to threads that don't apply to me.

I am naively surprised at the rise my comments got from some of you. Didn't mean to offend anyone, honest.

Hopefully we all just want what's best for the breed.
Austin's Mom

 

Nicely done.

Austins mom, how can be sure if your dog's are full pits if they are adopted? People can't even be sure if their dog's are pure if they buy them. I'm not sure if you are on thi board to promote the breed or to talk down on everything that people on this board says.
P.S. A training conference can't teach you about a real dogfight. It's something you have to experience first hand .

 

First off I would like to preface this with I think you really do have the breed best interest at heart. But there are a few things I would like to point out.

Two of my pits are pure bred and I haven't a clue about their lineage as they were all strays when I adopted them.
This was pointed out before, if you don't know the lineage then you don't know if it's a true game-bred bulldog. I can show you a lot of bandog's that come out looking big pits. Just look at the numerous bandog sites and you will see what I mean and some of them are just American Bulldogs and Olde English Bulldogges.

one of which is more gamey than any dog I've ever worked with or owned. The only reason she's still with us is because she's so highly trained I can call her off in an instant and she's daddy's little darling.
If you have dealt with a true game dog you would know that if there is an accident you would not be able to call them just to stop. This may be the most aggressive dog that YOU have dealt with but that does not make it a TRUE game dog. And even if it's daddy lil girl, in the heat of combat a game dog will not stop just because someone called it.

And I explain that just because the initial meet goes well, pits can change in the blink of an eye. My advice in multiple households is learn your dogs body language like the back of your hand and never, ever believe that your dog is the exception to the pit rules and would never fight (or bite). That way they can redirect the building aggression.
This statement sounds to me like you either think a pit is unstable or you just don't understand about dog aggression. Dog aggression is a trait of the breed it's not an exception. That's why people her always question people that have them running together. Because people that have been around true game bred dogs know that you are just asking for trouble. These dogs are not dog aggressive because their owner forces them it is just in there breeding. The above statement also sound like you believe that they will turn on you.

I think too often people, who really like the breed think that they are made to be dog aggressive. They get a good one and think if I raise it nice then nothing will happen. Then when the dog turns on they think it some how turned on them because it may hit a dog that it has grown up with. This is not the case whenever you get a dog that is bred a certain way it will have the traits of that breed. If you take a good herding dog as a pup and just keep it around a certain flock it was bred to herd eventually it will start doing it on it's own without input from it's owner. I do sincerly wish you luck with your dogs and your chose profession and I hope you keep learning about and helping people who decide they want to own this breed.

 

Enough already! We're in agreement, so I don't understand all of the confusion and animosity.

Yes, I do know what these dogs were bred for AND I know that responsible breeding in the last 100 years has produced, some fantastic, stable, family dogs...who still posses the potential for disaster. I also counsel EVERY adopter of this breed to keep this point in mind. I also know that punks, gangs and backyard breeders are producing some dangerous dogs...intentionally.

In fact, the #1 classification of biters I see are herding dogs, not pits or rotts! Why? Simply because they were bred to use their mouths to do their jobs, but in an urban setting have no job.

And I understand aggression, in all it's manifestations. I'm called in more often than I care for to handle, or remove from their vehicles, *aggressive* dogs for officers who are paid much more than me. More often than not, the aggression is nothing more than fear on the dogs behalf.

My thought is: if you have so many pits that you have to keep them separated by artifical barriers ,you either have too many or the wrong dogs are mixed together. Artificial barriers whether it be fences, chains or leashes are proven to be an /aggression escalator (look it up by those with phd's). In other words, if you want a fight dog, keep it on a chain or in a pen in close proximity to another gamey dog. This is science, not folklore....no matter what the breed.

I can't emphasize this enough...NO dog ever *turns*. Owners are ignorant (i.e; lack of knowledge).

And judging me to be aggressive...yeah, I've never backed down from a fight unless I deemed it necessary, which I have.
Barb H

 

If I misunderstood you I apologize. That's the one thing I don't like about the intenet, sometimes it is hard to get what you really mean across. That's why I pulled quotes out but if I got it wrong again I do apologize.