embarking on a couple experiments

hello, let me first say that i do not want to offend anyone with what im trying to do. the goal with my breeding program is to take a dog bred from UKC show lines and a dog bred from ADBA old game blood and re-introduce gameness into the pretty show dogs of today. basically undo all the damage that has been done to the very old pit bull bloodlines within the UKC and AKC. i do have a mentor breeder that is helping me along on my way, and i am asking for you all's opinions. i am in this for the long run, and i realize that heavy culling will have to be done. my mentor breeder also believes this will take me roughly 15 years to accomplish within my own blood. also, my mentor breeder is a "dogman". i want you all to give me your thoughts on this please try to do it without being too insulting to either me or my dogs. there are a couple people on this forum who may remember me from the "pit bull forum" through the APBR, and these people also know of my "dwarf" pit bull experiment. i have yet seen a bitch or dog as short as my own with good build. ok.........i will be waiting....

 

The only question that comes to my mind is....WHY?

 

i can answer that, i hope. you see, i love these dogs, and the things i love about them are all going down the drain. i like the way the staffie looks, i like the curve of the head, and the wedge snout. i like a dog with depth, and courage, and loyalty, and determination, and "tunnel vision" (sees something it wants, or even knows what it wants and WILL NOT STOP until it attains its goal no matter what stands in its way.) i think the UKC and the AKC took all that was excellent in these dogs and bred it out to make a pretty show dog that is not worth spit in the real world. what i want is a dog that on the outside looks like a pretty show dog, but on the inside has the true heart of a warrior. i have a few staffies on my yard, and they are nothing like my game dogs, even my dwarfs have everything i want, but they are short. and part of my own vision. basically i want a dog that could win shows in the UKC, but could also scratch like the best dogs of old if it ever needed to. i hope that explains it.........i want a show dog that can also hog hunt..........or whatever

 

So are you trying get a show looking dog with "game" and if so please tell me why .....now im not saying it is a bad idea but help us understand the reasons behind it and maybe we can better anwser you

 

Ironline Kennels have already done this with Ch Gambler and Ch Dutchess. Both were show champions as well as hunting champions.

I think an easier way to do this is just breed from game dogs with good confirmation. Rather than trying to breed gameness into the Staffs then you probably will not have to cull as hard because if the dogs are game but they don't fit your program you can always sell them to people who can appreciate a game dog and not worry so much about confirmation.

 

lol....thats ok, i hope this all helps....

 

i thought about that, and that doesnt fit with my long term goals. i have not seen any UKC champions that even resemble a game bred dog....it is hard to explain have any of you ever seen CH Gaff's Limited Edition? he is what i want my dogs to look like, but i want them to be like the dogs of old......CH Honeybunch, CH alligator, CH Snooty ect., ect

 

Good luck..It's already been done plenty of times..I dont see the logic, but if thats what you want then go for it..

 

In my opinion what you want to do is not only stupid, but this also is not an original idea, and I can assure you that it has been attempted a million times already. Until you express some legitimate reasons for wanting to do this, I will continue thinking it is very stupid and pointless.

 

Why breed curs??

 

Is there really a legit reason for this anyways? Logically there is none.

 

Why would you breed a "dwarf" pit? Why not breed one with gills so it can go underwater? Or better yet, breed a game dog with a boar. Than your dog will be able to think like a boar, and you will have more successes when hunting.

 

Who's Ch Snooty? lollol

 

If you want to improve on conformation, can you breed a performance bred dog to a show dog based on same/similar foundation, and then backcross into the performance line, instead of going the other way around. Or, is that also a waste of time. I am just wondering about what folks think.

Also show dogs appear to have a lot of hip problems. Is HD just as bad in performance lines, anyone know?

 

don't think of me as stupid but as trying to understand...would it cause problems for a biger dog being breed with a smaller dog...my moms boyfriend about 17 yrs ago rescued a bull mastive..we called moo cow because she was hugh..well he had staffys and his male got loose and well you know from there...when she had her pups they were all fine till they got older...they out grew their skin and became mean well not all of them 2 where fine but the other 8 had to be put done...i was 16 at the time and didn't understand...after that my oppion of the breed was not of high standards....because i saw a mean dog...i had always said i would never have one....until the my mom's staffy had pups....i was at her house one day, and this thing.(that is what i called her at the time) started nuzzlin my leg...and i fell in love....i read up a little on the breed...and they weren't the mean bad dog i had thought they were....i feel bad for the feeling i had for the breed....because codie is a wonderful dog...and i have a lot of friends who have them now and all there dogs are just as wonderful...i have learning of the breed and i am still learnin as i speak.....alls i can say is thank God for my codie....dora

 

I don't see the point in this type of breeding!! And a dwarf pit, I want to see that.

 

I am assuming this picture from your gallery is your dwarf pit?

 

I wouldn't call your dog a 'staffy' because that is not what he is. You have some type of bulldog mix who's sire and dam should have never been bred in my opinion.

 

This can NOT happen. A dog cannot outgrow is skin, his brain cannot outgrow his skull (in blunt trauma to the head the brain can swell & put pressure inside the skull, but by that point the dog is usually dead...not acting mean). These are "old wives' tales" often told about APBTs, Rottweilers, & Doberman Pinschers. I am not trying to sound harsh, but I just want to "get the facts straight" so newcomers to the breed don't believe this hocus pocus. As for the dogs having a bad temperament, that usually is genetic or individual to the dog's personality itself.