Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

...for me the diference consists in the honesty of the breeder and his reputation... peds aren't so important if the breeder is honest... I've began this thread because I saw some people here refering to "Back Yard Bloodlines" to any dog without pedigree or sigilous pedigree... it's wrong and very confuse in my oppinion... many pedigrees are totally and cleary lies... I think it's better don't have one if somepeople want to show a lie...

Focus the dog not the paper.

What do you all think about that...

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

I agree that if the breeder is honest, you have nothing to be afraid, but backyard breeding is not done by honest breeders. It's done mostly by punk a#$ kids who bread for color , or size, who breed HA dogs and other like that.
back yard bloodlines refere to RE and so on so called "pitbulls". I hope you get my point and where i am going with this.

Now for the dogs without peds, I can say that you are not totally confident that if you buy a dog without a ped , you are going to get a quality dog. If you get him from a breeder that you are sure of , than the ped is not important.

In any case , I would say that dogs make papers not the other way arround.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

The BYB thread was started to refer to bloodlines that were made up by dishonest breeders to rook unknowing buyers into buying unregistered dogs out of unknown lineage. For example, Gator Bluenose, Texas Rednose, etc.

I have never seen a Gator Bluenose, Texas Rednose, etc. that was ever registered & the only thing the owner/breeder knew was that the dog was a "Texas Rednose" (or whatever he had). Didn't know if the parents were registered, what the blood went back to, what did the ancestors do or anything.

Could a good dog come out of those lines? Sure. There's nothing saying you can't. Good dogs come in all bloodlines.

But if you got a good "Texas Rednose" (or whatever) firstly, the animal would pretty much be a fluke b/c there was probably no rhyme or reason behind it's breeding. They just bred some good looking bulldogs together & you got a flash in the pan.

Secondly, how are you going to breed it? It might make double GR.CH. in the box but you're never going to be able to reproduce that dog b/c you don't even know what went into it. It could be half American Bulldog for all you know!

So while some fellow out there may have a game "Gator Bluenose" or "Tiger Stripe Pit" I prefer to stay w/ game dogs of dogs of known lineage. But that is just me.


JMHO ...

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

I clearly agree that the dog's make the ped and not the other way around cause clearly if you happen to look at my gallery the white dog in there has no papers and is a hell of a bulldog in my opinion.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

Disagree... many famous dogs (as Zebo himself) still are in the top about true blood discussions, but produced excellent bulldogs... you can breed a dog based in his performance, blood or both, perhaps a good dog or a good producer aren't made only by papers... for me you never can't expect nothing but a tendency from a pedigree... example: I saw Bolios that became excelent leg dogs when his owner wanted a head dog, that are most common for this bloodline...

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

I have to disagree. You bring up Zebo & I say by doing so you have just proved my point. In all the females Zebo was bred to, never did they succeed in re-creating Zebo. Yes, they produced some good dogs, but they never produced another Zebo. They never produced a dog even close to Zebo.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

Back yard breeders are commonly know in the USA to peddle puppies for quick cash. Without papers for all you know you could be buying a dog that has part poodle in it ( i know its extreme but you get the point )....you just don't know 100% for sure what your getting.

In your case Highblood I understand for you have mentioned it before, you do not want someone replicating your dog through paper work and for you owning & breeding working dogs I see your point.

I know some people fudge paperwork that you cannot avoid , to me that is just an extremely good puppy peddler passing off shit dogs by lying. Most BYB in the states are not that good and are just slapping 2 dogs together to try and produce puppies for cash nothing more.

I would never buy a dog from any kennel unless they were refered to me by a trusting source. I'm very fortunate that I live near the most reputable breeder in the country and If i was to ever step out of the Colby line of dogs I would not go off of the word of some guy pushing puppies in the parking lot of Wal-Mart instead I would take up the word of fellow fanciers of the breed.

Sorry that you take offense to that lable but here in the states that is how we refer to those people who peddle puppies for cash...BYB.

P.S. When is my Crocamouff being shipped ?

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

Stepp's Willie as performer.

Hughe's Gator as producer.

And this were just a few about what we know based in historical registers... how many times Zebo (and many another famous dogs) was breed to bitches that we can't even imagine...

We can't forget that many even "papered" good dogs have not produced similar dogs as himself. No pedigree can't show what a dog will be, it can only show a tendency and nothing more. As producer, as performer.

In other hand, the mexican Antonio Bellon's line, for example, were based in crosses with different american dogs as Crenshaw and Red Boy, this line, even not being "papered" in its biggest part, made two of the bests producers I ever seen, that were Bellon's Ch Escuder and Bellon's Ch. Koatly (I saw these dogs with my own eyes, I know what they could perform and produce).
The Bellon line made victories against important american breeders, as Crenshaw himself... even if some of them don't want to acepst this till today... this is fact not histories, ask the ones who were there...

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

First: I'm not offended, I just can't assume any risk, but some of my dogs I'm proud to show the line... I keep only the rare (and VERY expensive) ones. I know the difference between a BYB and a "real deal" breeder that keep his dogs' peds in sigilous. My point is that there's some new guys that think that EVER dog in the world that doesn't have a ped or it is sigilous, are from BYB. If we assume that, then Bullies are purest than my Zebo/Bullyson bitch (Yes, she has a ped, with DNA and everything... but I keep it secret for now...).

Second: I tried to ship your Crocamouff 100% pure green incredible blood!!! But he unfortunatelly ate the airplane and a half of the airport... PURE GAMENESS!!! Tah... tah tah tah... tah tah tah... tah tah taaaannn... (eye of the tiger music )

hehehe.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

I think a good dog to help drive a point home would be Rushin Bill GR CH 35 .
Absolute kick ass dog with no papers to back him up but on that same note....he was bred out but nothing he produced ever made a name for itself.

So in a way your both right, Gr Ch 35 made his own papers but his bloodline proved to be nothing more than a flash in the pan.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

Highblood: Yes, Willie & Gator were good producers &/or performers. So were many other dogs bred off Zebo. But no breeder was ever able to replicate Zebo. They may have got good dogs from him, but they never got anything close to the bulldog he was.

Another case of this is GR.CH. Sport. He was an unregistered dog who was said to be Midnight Cowboy on top & unknown on bottom. He sired a few good dogs, but no one could ever replicate a dog anywhere near Sport's calibre.

Pedigrees are simply tools to help you build a breeding program. It does not determine what a dog will be (if that were the case the whole Zebo x Honeybunch litter should have been aces!) but it only lets you know what may be.

However, just as I would not set about building the foundation of a house w/out the tools I need, nor would I would not set about building a breeding program without the tools I need there either.

But again, that is just me.

(P.S. Don't think I am against a good dog who is unregistered - GR.CH. Sport is in my state & I was seriously thinking about getting some pups off him, but I haven't since he has since passed away.)

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

Now I got your point... You're right based in your point of view, I can't disagree with that.

Just to figure what is my point... an example: When I brought Shade Smoke (Doida) from Mr. Wolney himself I paid LOOOOOTTTTSSS of money, but I didn't brought only o pedigree... I saw what she could do before buying her (I paid the price of two good bulldogs.. and toke just one to my yard...)

Regards ABK, it's always a pleasure to discuss twith you.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

My take of a BYB is a person that only breeds to make a buck. What ever comes from the litter doesn't matter as long as money is to be made. A BYB doesn't care about improving the breed. As far as a ped goes I had a inbreed daughter of GR CH Buck. Her game dog registry ped was different then her ADBA ped. What ever ped you believed didn't matter Buck was a great dog.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

there are plenty of byb bred pitbulls in brazil also ..not just the usa..they sell them on brazilian ebay(mercadolivre)from $20 to $600 dallors..most bloodlines are just called red nose..some are castillo ,larson,and thompson..most show not go..highblood actually has some of the better dogs i have seen out here..some good garner and FB dogs also..

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

I think different fight stiles have nothing to do with blood lines or dog races . You will find good head or leg dogs by Akitas or Malamutes or Tosas. I do not think itself the predilection for certain clutches inherited. I believe every dog used what is from his view the best of all stiles.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

Well Ill offer my views

I read an article by a well own dogman a few years ago I cannot remember who it was exactly. But the moral was basically to see the sire and dam in action for what ever purpose you want the dog for. So if the sire and dam excell and meet your standards and expectations then theres a good chance your going to get a good pup that will excell in the "sport" or "activity" you choose to compete within.

I think people lean too much on bloodlines and Ch's,Gr Ch's that where bred in the 60's-80's. I mean you can go to a man/womans yard pet the dog stroke it and get a general feel of its physique ect but I belive you have to see the dog preform in with your own eyes

Not just rely on Mr.Dogger from South Texas who is having a great deal of success with this blood.

But I also belive that a dog that is a mediocre preformer or does well against slow/average dogs should not even be put on the ped regardless. Rather nuetered so it cannot weaken the gene pool then it is your decision what to do with the dog therefore the gene pool gets stronger.

I see in every other sentance contains the term back yard breeder. We all have the general same concept of a back yard breeder. So theres no need for me to explain what a byb is but Infact as long as there is a demand for these dogs there are going to be people who create a supply to gain profit. Then we have surplus "stock" and that surplus may fall into the wrong hands or merly dumped to fend for its self eventullay and most likley dieing.

I think we argue to much over blood and peds. If a dog is a great preformer we shouldnt let arguements about his sire/dam cloud this fact.

Also you people talk about how byb have many breedings per year but doesnt mr.garner also do this and selling allot of the pups to the public at $800+?

"I had a inbreed daughter of GR CH Buck. Her game dog registry ped was different then her ADBA ped. What ever ped you believed didn't matter Buck was a great dog."

If both peds are diffrent then how do you even know she had buck blood in her? They both could be fantasy peds.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

I agree with Koening about the term BYB. :cool:

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

"If both peds are diffrent then how do you even know she had buck blood in her? They both could be fantasy peds."
I know she was a inbreed GR CH Buck dog because I bought her from STP kennels directly. She basicly is still a Patrick breed dog but her sire Buck's ADBA ped was different then his Gamedog ped at that time I do not know if it was ever corrected. My point was regardless what his ped said he was a great dog.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

But it has... and Akitas, Malamutes or even today's Tosas are not figurating in any place against real deal bulldogs in "shows"... they can be head dogs or leg dogs or anything else... but never good ones... just dogs that run with the time as any dog else but bulldogs and some dogos.

Send me a PM I can make myself clear.

Regards, Realone.

 

Re: Differences between "Back Yard" and "Sigilous"...

My friend you barks before the wrong tree. I know that Bulldogs are the best fighters , only with the help of theirs tremendously high gameness. What I meant is you find legdogs, throaddogs, ear or nose dogs, headdogs et cetera in all dog races. Also with wolves. Different fight-styles are natural.But Bulldogs have the full program, perseverance, strength, technology and most important gameness.