Cesar Millar is a dumba..

After all the talk about Cesar Millan's book, I picked up "Cesar's Way" yesterday. Pretty good read until I got to page 180. Here he writes:

"People who raise pit bulls, Presa Canarios, Cane Corsos or other dogs for fighting turn these innocent dogs into killers by abusing them. When they're young the dogs are never allowed to be puppies, they have to be warriors all the time. The owners will start smacking the dog in the head from an early age, putting hot sauce on his food, teasing him & letting him be attacked by a bigger dog - all because they believe this treatment will make a dog tough. They will punch him & pinch him repeatedly until he bares his teeth, at which point they 'll stop pinching him. In this way he learns to bare his teeth for self-preservation. They'll buy chickens & let the dog chase one while praising him. Then they'll tie the chicken up so the dog will learn to kill."

On page 181 he continues his B.S. writing:

"First of all, they start the abuse at a very early age, making the dog more traumatized about fighting than desiring to fight. The dogs actually become very fearful, anxious & tense about fighting. They fight only out of fear - a fight-or-flight response."

Until I got to this drivel I thought the guy might actually have a little sense. Now I plan on writing this dip-s..t a letter. I might even send him a Stratton book.

What a moron. Does anyone have this guy's address???

 

Maybe you can find contact info here. He was in the chat room at 8 last night.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/

I'm sure there are some duma$$es who do these things. He is from Mexico where dog fighting is legal. I'm not saying this is something dogmen do, I'm just saying that the types of fighting dogs who end up in the hands of rescuers are not from real dogmen. Just as there are plenty of APBT's but only a handful of real game dogs, there's plenty of wantabe dogman and only a handful of real ones.

I'de like to hear any responces that you may get.

you can also go to his main site.

 

hmm interesting...

If only he used better wording, such as the words "SOME" as i could see some individuals doing stuff like this...


I dunno, i go by the rule that you cannot 100% agree w/ anyone. You are gonna find flaws in them. We are only human... a lot of other stuff i have heard out of his mouth was actually pretty good. I would probably still get the book to read those first 80 pages

 

Sadly I have to disagree, I mean that IS what people do when they are raising these dogs to fight....granted thats not what we do, but numbskulls and morons in the street do these things to their dogs everyday to make them be this way. True game bred APBT's don't have to go through this...it is already a part of them it is part of great stamina and drive. Owners do not have to tease and torture their dogs so they can be tested for gameness, as they are already game bred...am I making any sense here at all? I hope this reads what I am trying to say! I would say it is JMO...but I can't because its the truth. Just ask any hoodrat how they get their dogs to fight and act crazy like they do...this is the exact response you get! It is very sad....

 

LOL! I read an entire William Koehler book and it just got more and more insane! Even though I thought the man was psycho after the first chapter. There's a member or two on here to thinks Cesar's methods are similar to Koehlers... but they're NOT even close! They both agree on being the dominant animal and that's about all they have in common. Feel free to prove me wrong, Koehler was anything but gentle and empathetic and Cesar corrects behavior with as minimal force as possible and is always trying to see the dog's side of the story.

 

Man I always liked his technique but this isnt animal planet...this is real life and from what he says he has never witnessed what hes talking about...he is probaly referring to the overwhelming amount of inner city cur dogs fought in the street and abused etc by moronic ignoramus assholes who give professionals a bad name....but ignorant people like him are blind and believe people hit or poke dogs to make them mean...even smacking them to make them growl are all lies...if your a good dogman you would prepare the dog to be touched and be raised healthy...you cant do anything with a dog that bites or a dog that wont hunt so that means people just make shit up to create this aura of evil instead of actually directing and educating with a "professionals" point of view...man all they need to do is read Cajun rules and theyed all realize that Animal Planet and Cesar...show the worst of the cases not the other good cases...I mean if you bought a pup for a lot of money like 800 and raised him for 2 years...probaly at least another 800 in food..then you bet on this dog and he gets hurt or even wins a hard one ...you got to touch that dog...pick him up give medical attention...you cant do that to a biter that you abused...an abused dog has no bond with the man and wont usually fight anyway and if it does it wont have any heart and he wont trust you......and if you love your dog and have a bond it would be immpossible to do that to a friend like your dog ...who would you want to ruin a potential CH or producer........not to mention when hunting you sometimes have to be a heads length away.... talking to your dog and encouraging it...why would you want that creature to die or get hurt or be a biter in that situation..that could be your yard starter or even be a stud why waste your investment by abusing or killing your dog........I think their slander and libel against the true professional will only get worse...they put us all in the same sinking boat where we hit and abuse and harm our dogs to get them to fight....Freaking morons like him with no real dogman knowledge should refrain from spouting off like they know more than they really do....I dont rant and rave about Space shuttles...because I know nothing about them...so why should he preach about something he obviously has no experiance with...I wish the morons of the world would open their eyes....oh wait no.... if the did they might see thay were wrong...

 

Misterdogman: GREAT POST! I agree 100%!

Southeastern: I wouldn't say it what ppl are doing. I would say it's what SOME thugs are doing. Not dogmen though. Ask Ed Faron, the man who bred many of your Wildside dogs if he or anyone he knew smacked their dogs in the head or put tabasco on their food!

Riptora: I agree Cesar has some good ideas. But his thoughts on dogfighters is way WAY off. Almost sounds like some crap PETA would put out there.

I doubt Cesar always uses minimal force - he may for the show, but what goes on behind the scenes? After all didn't he just get used for causing permanent damage to a Lab?

As for him being from Mexico, I don't think that excuses his ignorance about dogmen. After all, some great dogmen are in Mexico & big convnetions were held there as well.

As for proving you wrong about Koehler, just take a look at any police dog or military dog. They are trained using Koehler methods. In fact, at my unit in Korea the Koehler guard dog book was the "handbook" for training K9s. He is a little hard core & his methodology is not for the pet type person. But his type of training works & works well.

 

Ok I can understand how being mean, hitting, punching, ect. could piss any dog off, but what's with the hot sauce on the dog's food. I found that a little odd.

 

Well I personaly have never tried it, but from what I understand...it makes the dogs mean/aggressive..as part of torture!

 

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! Mercedes used to chew on the couch legs when she was young, so I sprinkled hot sauce on one thinking it woud deter her, hell no, she liked it. I had to wash it off so she'd leave it alone. As for it making her mean, um, no. I guess they think it will get the dogs all "hot" and "fired up", lol.

 

Putting hot sauce on a dog's food is an urban myth. I'm sure it's been done, but I doubt it gets any results - most dogs I've met won't even eat food w/ hot sauce on it!

But the idea is the same as feeding a dog gunpowder - it would cause gastric upset & makes the dog an unstable dog more prone to bite.

The rest of the crap he wrote is bull too. Punching, pinching & smacking a dog around will only make it hand-shy & fearful of you. Teasing it would only make it person-aggressive, not dog-aggressive & letting bigger dogs attack it will only ruin it.

I have to agree w/ misterdogman. IMO it sounds like Cesar has never been around a true dogman & is just talking like he's an expert on something he knows absolutely nothing about.

 

LOL...that was funny, I dont know what they it does for/to them....

 

He is probably writing his personal experiences on the issue. Mexico is far less dog friendly than the US and fighting dogs is common. Maybe he's never met any pro dogmen but he does have several APBT's used by backstreet fighters who now live in a doggie community... so, he must be on to something. I wouldn't go so far as to catagorize him as a PETA advocate just because of that one statement. Yes, I very much like this man, I think he is a huge contrabution to the dog world. I don't know why someone would tie a dog up and light them on fire, and I don't know why some wantabe doggers smack their dogs and feed them hot sauce.

The lawsuit is crap. Cesar was not at the facility when these freakish injuries occured. The owner was suing him for $25,000 which is insane. No vet bill in the world would ever cost that much, especially a swollen throat. I haven't heard any details on that since, but it sounds ludicrus. Besides, why should this discredit him when even real dogmen have kennel accidents?

He does use minimal force. For harder dogs he will raise the bar and there is one episode that was discused on the Leerburg forum where it is believed most of it was cut out. He is a pro, he uses as little as he needs to. Even then there are certified behaviorists who claims he uses too much! If you watch the videos closely, you will see there are not many cuts in between. I even read an article in the New Yorker where a journalist followed Cesar around and wrote about him. There was some negative letters sent in about him using too much force behind the scenes and the author wrote another article stating he that there was no BIG secret behind the scenes, what you saw was what you got. I believe it, you can see the difference as he is working on screen.

Yes, Koehler is noted for being very effective. He ran the military K-9 training for years, he developed it. I read recently that they have modified the old training tecniques. The military does not take the dog's livability or future into consideration. Even you have stated that these animals would not make it in the real word, even with their handlers. I find Ed Frawley's ( Leerburg ) methods equally as effective and far more reasonible. Which results in well rounded dogs who can adapt to any part of society.

I understand your concern about sending a negative image of real dogmen who have made this breed, but finish the book. I wonder what his opinion is on a pro level, but I doubt it is something he would condone.

 

Too funny BlaizenJ!

If hot sauce gets one all hot & fired up maybe I need to feed some to my husband!!!

 

LOL......ya I second that one!

 

Man thats BS I give bambam occasional Fire hot cheetos and Hot pork rinds all the time...I am a spicy food fanatic and if im eating like a taco or burrito I put my favorite hotsauce on it and if I dont finish it...it goes to him since hes retired and never had people food until now....hes never even acted like he could tell it was hot and a lot of normal people would say it was hot if they tasted it.....and I doubt that hot sauce is in a dogs mouth long enuf to taste it or be affected mentally to be mean...you all seen dogs swallow without chewing..........I doubt that dogs have complex taste buds like us.....we enjoy many foods and flavors as a human but Dogs only care for one flavor...meat....so I think thats a crock of feces...but once again the public will believe anything a guy like him says.. No matter what that may be like he runs the holy grail school of dogdom or something....
Screw him and all the liars who try to vilify professional dogmen by including them with back street morons who may actually do cruel things to their dogs like he says...its like saying all white people are serial killers because of Jeff Dahmer or , John Wayne Gacy....and thats no where the truth...just like his view on the subject...
Come on Cesar do your research....

 

The hot sauce thing does sound pretty mexican doesn't it? Perro Loco!

 

(mexican accent) "Ohh, I'm gonna put this hot sauce in my dog's food, it gonna make him mean and bite." Yea, sounds about right.
(NO offense to anyone, just a funny )

 

You guys kill me!

Perhaps you are right Riptora. Maybe he has not ever met a true dogman. But that still does not excuse him from perpetuating complete & total B.S.

If he is not educated on the subject (which it is painfully obvious he is NOT) he should not be speaking on it, let alone speaking on it as an authority. Like mister said, how many morons will believe this as the gospel truth just b/c Cesar said it? And how many little thugs will now go out & try it??

As for him using the least force all the time, I still doubt it. Newspapers can say what they want. We all know newspapers can be trusted, right? :rolleyes:

As for the military, I do not know if they have re-vamped their techiques or not. But I know when I was in in the mid to late 90s that is what they used & re-vamp or not it is what many handlers will continue to use. The kennel masters may stop using it if a re-vamp is ordered, but the handlers will continue to use it simply b/c that is what they are used to & works.

And you are correct, most MWDs are not suitable for public life. But what makes them unsuitable is not training alone but their lifestyle as well. MWDs do not live like normal dogs & they are not treated like normal dog.

The live in small kennels unless they are working. As a result some become neurotic, even to the point of self-mutilation. This is why some MWDs are docked - b/c they would not stop chewing their tails.

Further they are not selected on suitability of temperment but on working ability. So they will take a dog who will eat you up, so long as it's a working fool, they'll take it.

Put this combo w/ the Koehler method & often you have a neurotic, suspicious, high drive dog w/ a hair-trigger. NOT a dog suitable for civilian life.

I have used the Koehler methods on most of my dogs w/ no problems. Part of what what I like about the Koehler method is the DOG makes the choice to be corrected or not, not the handler & IMO dogs seem to learn faster that way.

I do not use the Koehler method on any of my soft dogs however. I do like some of Cesar's ideas as well, but IMO after the dogfighting comments not much of what he says can be trusted.

After all if he will speak on the subject of dogfighting w/ authority & be completely wrong, what else has he spoken on w/ authority & been wrong as well?

I will finish the book however - after all I bought it I don't like good money to go to waste, but rest assured I will never buy anything w/ his name on it again & he will be getting a letter from me.

That being said - will someone pass the hot sauce??

 

Yeah lol...think about it our dogs would usually hit anything from a cat to a bear and not waiver but a little Ortega and they get mean and crazy..Come on!!!!
give the dogs more credit than that... they deserve it...and all those other things that the dog will experiance around other gamedogs will be far more stressful than hotsauce and they dont go crazy because of other dogs...thats retarded

And dont worry about offending anyone ...Just pretend your Carlos Mencia or Dave Chappelle and you can get away with anything...lmao...