breeding question

I have alway heard from respected breeders that the breeding is in the bitch.My question is why is it that people will still breed a cold or untested bitch just because of her ped,But these same people would never breed a untested, cold or curr male?IMO its the same thing.Just wanted to hear some opinons on this topic since I have no experience in breeding,just what I have read or have been told.IMO starting off with a cold or curr dog regardless of sex is talking a step backwards if your goal for the breeding is to produce game dogs.

 

Just to throw this in there...I have personally seen a cold bitch throw good game dogs..Not to mention, A CH or GR CH can produce a cur...Its not as simple as people might think...regardless what someone tells you about a pups parents, doesnt make it the truth....Now a days a person will lie and give false info like its nothing. Regardless of whether the parents are proven or if they arent...its still a gamble when choosing a pup...some turn out others dont...Me personally would rather have a pup from proven parents..But will you really know unless you actually see it????hummm

 

I understand what you are saying,but why are people more likley to breed a cold or curr bitch rather than a cold or curr male?

 

What a great topic! Definitely gets the wheels of thought spinning. I really am clueless as to why some would emphasize checking a male but not a female. Since my yard very rarely consists of more than 2 or 3 males, if I wasn't checking my females I wouldn't know if the biggest % of my stock was game or not.
I have a question for those of you who live in the Philippines: I have a good friend in Davao who tells me that it's rather customary in those parts to compete with the male and leave the female strictly for brood stock. How much truth is there to this, in actuality?

Be honest.

 

I read the question but I guess it didn't properly register. Why anyone would breed a cur or cold one, be it male or female, is a question I'm curious to know the answer to myself. I guarantee you though, that there are a helluva lot more curs and unchecked dogs being bred out there than anyone is letting on.

 

I can see taking a chance on a cold dog, but not a known cur! And if you do breed a cold dog, be prepared to keep all of em and cull hard! In my opinion, the most important thing is to be honest and not making excuses for your dogs. Be honest with yourself and with everyone you deal with, and you're alright in my book. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

Another good point by Mrs Spencer. I suppose if you have the means to keep a litter to yourself for 2 years+ and willing to do the necessary culling, then if you want to go ahead and breed a cur or two it's nobodies business but yours. I wouldn't fault someone for it. If one is willing to assume the added risk and accept responsibility for the outcome, then I can't see how it would hurt anyone else.

 

but you alway hear people preach to the blue fanciers that "if you don't breed for gameness than all you got is a amstaff",so how is this any different when you breed a cold bitch or cold male.......and you can't justify it by saying that because of their pedigrees that they are bred to produce,because I have also heard the saying that "the papers don't make the dog" many many times.
I am not tring to start any trouble Im just looking to start a interesting conversation

 

Personally - I would NEVER breed a known cur! Now - that being said, that doesn't mean I'd never breed a quitter. Before I get flamed for that (LOL), let me say that I would not call a 2 hour quitter a cur. It's all relative to me. There are CHs out there that some would call curs cause they never went up against good competition. If I ever breed a quitter, it'd be just like breeding a cold or untested dog - I'd keep em all and cull as needed. To me, it all comes down to honesty. If you are honest with yourself about your dogs, and don't make excuses for them, you should be okay. Now, some would say that breeding a quitter - even a 2 or 3 hour quitter - is equivalent to making excuses for him/her. I can see why someone might think that, but as I said, it is all relative to me. Anyway - to answer your question - if I were to breed a cold/untested dog or a quitter or whatever, I'd keep the litter to myself. The reason for the breeding would still be gameness - even if that makes no sense to some. And if I'm not breeding a dog based on it's performance, then I am taking a chance on the blood behind them. The difference in that, and Amstaff breeders, to me - I'd NEVER breed for color, size, etc. I hope that makes some sense. LOL.

EDIT: after re-reading my post, I wanted to add something. I stated that I wouldn't call a 2 hour quitter a cur. That's not always true. It's hard to explain. Like I said - it's all relative. I'd just have to see each dog perform and make a decision on a case by case basis. This doesn't mean I'd make excuses for my dog. More than anything, I want to be honest about my dogs, cause I'm breeding for myself - not to impress anyone else. I hope someone out there understands what I'm trying to say.

 

This is tricky, the word cur is one that we all throw around alot. A cur quits, but, the truth is that they all will quit. It's just finding the time it will take, and the one that wiil make em.

 

I believe that most will indeed quit, giving the right circumstances, but after days of arguing with Fifty and TexasBulldogs over this very topic, I've come to agree that it is somewhat closed-minded to say that all would quit.
Spencer, I hear what you're saying and think you expressed your opinion very well. As I've said before, gameness is relative to an individual's definition of what gameness is. For me, I don't have the means to take a chance on a cold dog, and certainly won't bother with a cur. I've lost my ass enough times on prospects that were whelped by unquestionable gamedogs. I just can't afford to lower the odds any further. Of course there have been some good dogs produced by curs, but the percentages must surely be low. On the other hand, it's impossible to really know what those percentages are because honest dogmen seem to be few and far between. I think people put way too much faith in a pedigree alone, without seeing for themselves what the dogs are actually capable of. I'd much rather have a gamedog with an ugly pedigree than a well-bred cur.

 

chainsoff, i dont no what you have in your back yard, but i dont keep a dog that quits,if he quits after one hour or three he is still a quitter!!! dogs i bred from are not winning 100%, but they dont quit!!! i have that magic eye and see what others dont see, and also see what others do see!!! any one that says "they all will quit are talking a lot of poopie!!!" getting back to the question that was put up first " the number one thing a bitch has to have is breeding! " you cant put it in , its got to be there!! a bitch with breeding is the main thing in a persons back yard, i like when there line bred!! you could breed a line bred bitch thats cold, it might not be the best thing, but its better that breeding a good bitch, that has no breeding behind her!!! there are lots of dogs out there that wont quit!!! there are a lot of dogs out there that are dead!! because they would not quit!!! when you have seen over thirty years of these dogs you get to learn when to pick up your dog,its an insult to me to read " they all will quit" when i have spent most of life breeding to get the standard i want, and now have!! set your standards in life high either in dogs etc , listen to everyone, its the ones that live for there dogs, dream of there dogs, cull the quitters, get to the top in this game!!! dont take this post as a post to attack you "chainsoff", just giving my opinion , now were did i put that breaking stick !!

 

I also would take the one with the ugly pedigree.I think the main resason why people are more likely to bred a cold bitch with a nice pedigree is because they only plan on selling the pups.Most people wouldn't buy a scatter bred pup even if it came from proven parents.why are people so intrested in the way a dog is bred?If gameness is top priority like so many people preach than pedigree shouldn't mean shit as long as the parents are proven game stock.

 

powder 925, If gameness is top priority like so many people preach than pedigree shouldn't mean shit as long as the parents are proven game stock.

its nice to own the parents, or know that there proven!! but its better again to have a lot of breeding behind them!!!! i myself like to go back the years of a dog , i would also have to see or have seen them perform!!! i have seen dogs perform with other people watching, and all have different view points, and seen different things!! dont believe what you hear!!! believe only what you see!!! <!-- / message -->

 

A lot of time I think people breed cold dogs because of the pedigree behind the dog, many old timers did it and got good results. Today people do it because they are trying to make a quick buck or because they paid $1000-1,500 for the pup that grew up to be a cold dog.
I personally would not breed a cold dog, I don't have that type of space to see if the pups turn out.

 

A cur dog and a cold dog is two different types of dog a cur dog is a dog that is a quitter and and a cold dog is a dog that nevers turn on we throw the cur word around way to much.

 

WOW! I might actually stick around for this topic...
I cant say that I've been doing this for long (10 yrs) but I can say that in my experience it is better to have a dog/pup that is filled with ROM/POR blood in his ped rather than come from CH., GR. CH.
JFO~

 

but if people keep breeding cold dogs,won't the ROM/POR blood eventually get push to far back in the pedigree to make a difference?

 

I would never breed a cur of any sorce.

but if any one dos thats there bis, there dog's thay can do as thay want with thim.
I dont no the ancer to that Qustion. but a good topic

 

How does breeding a COLD dog push ROM/POR "blood" back in the ped??? A cold dog can be a ROM or POR dog...but in the end, none of these titles matter.