Big dogs.

Yes gameness is definately a fine quality in the breed. Ask yourself this, where did the trait gameness come from in the apbt? It didn't just fall from the sky but was also a trait possesed by breeds used in the foundation of the apbt. Gameness doesn't start and end with the apbt. Their gameness came from somewhere if we prescribe to the theory that only the apbt is game then we must also believe that any breed could becomw game after it was culled for desired traits over years, but this simply isn't true.

What do you consider game? BK's fights for hours never giving up in the hot sun of the desert only to be stopped by their handlers or death. Is that game? These dogs will fight up until the moment their heart stops beating, is that game?

Let's stop all this nonsense about apbt's being the only game dog because it simply isn't true as well as being highly impropable from a statistical stand point.

 

Why would you compare an APBT to the BK? Can they go 3 + hrs like the APBT? NO. they are the dog that has to get the job done ASAP in order to survive. They are not in the same weight class. What is more interesting to you in boxing? A heavy weight bout where they only throw maybe and average of 98-120 punches a round, most of which are power shots to end the fight fast, or a light weight, 210-315 punches per fight with more action and more heart and gameness. Sure, the heavy weight is big and impressive and its fun to see a big guy fall, but its the heart and the adversity that we love so much in our breed. The willing to go all 12 with a real fighter with real skill.

BKs are in their class and APBTs are in theirs. By the way, here in Japan, we dont need videos, we take a quick drive to the match and see it first hand.....

So you have seen a couple of videos of some BK fights and never seen a cur. Probably cuz they selectivly record fights that are worth recording and not one that shows the cur in the breed. Just cuz you see some good dogs dont meen that the breed dosnt have its share of curs.

 

I actually have a whole tournament from pakistan which also has a few other breeds in it as well. So I have seen a wide spectrum of their ability. I'm happy that you have the priviledge of witnessing the tosa and apbt their but for me I'm not very impressed with the pure tosa as a breed

 

If you read earlier in my posts you will see that I share the same opinion. I stated that they are to different weight classes and that it's hard to compare and unfair. Then one briliant member on this forum tried to suggest that a 50#apbt should be enough to take any large dog which is utter nonsense, so I had to clear things up.

I will say it again the apbt is the most impressive breed and my opinion and the best #4# fighter. They just aren't going to compete with the large fighting breeds. It's like apples and oranges.

 

They are good working dogs here for the Japanese and they perform the way that is necesary. Powerful and Short. Im going to another match possibly during Golden week (Japanese Holiday) to see acouple of friends Tosa-kens work. Like I said, they are in different weight classes and different categories. I really do hope you find what you are looking for, and im sure that you will do well with it. God Bless Brother and Good Luck.

 

Thank you very much and I appreciate the kind words. Again I wasn't trying to stir things up just trying to clarify some things to some that may have a misunderstanding. Actually from my corispondences with a man in India who breeds the BK he has become very interested and passionate about the apbt from conversations and material we have exchanged and i will be assisting him in getting an apbt for him as a pet. So that goes to show how much people really do appreciate the apbt and the american breeders. Good luck in Japan and don't forget to watch the Pride Open Weight Gran Prix

 

You know im on that! LOL. Im a boxer and hell, soon enough you all might see me on Pride or K-1. Its good when people have more knowlege about other breeds than just one. It shows that they are going further in life by researching the whole pic. You have to know what you are against and how to over come it. you are a knowlegable person and it seems as though you will continue to expand your knowlege. May 5th right on the Pride?

 

Yeah im pretty sure. I actually live in ohio and train with rich franklin. Hold on and I'll make an avatar of me fighting in the full throttle events

Nevermind I suck and can't do it.

 

Here are som links. When I had the long hair and the white trunks I was fighting in kentucky at my second profight ever in the heavyweight class and for a title I won by an armbar transition from triangle. In the other pictures I'm all the way down cut down to middleweight so I'm 185 max. I know fight at welter which tops at at 170 so I have cut quite a few weightclasses

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/workman43113/ft3_070_tn.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/workman43113/ft3_069_tn.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/workman43113/ft3_068_tn.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/workman43113/workman_villella_1.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/workman43113/workman_villella_2_s.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/workman43113/workman_villella_3_s.jpg

 

I will post some pics of my GG (Golden Gloves) fights from back home and then I will post some of me and "The Kid". We train together at Tokyo School of Boxing. They are scrapers out here and if i had to say that someone was the APBT of the human world I would give it to the Hispanics or the Japanese. Small, Compact, and one hell of a drive with the willingness to go as long as it takes.

 

You train with Kid Yamamoto what a priveledge. He has very heavy hands. He reminds me of a little mike tyson the way he moves. Mike Tyson when he still had a little left of course.

 

When im lucky and he has time, he likes to study English and sometimes we will hit the Ramen Shop after a good workout together and get some Abura Soba. He seems to be quite interested in the APBT now and he might join me at the next match. He is quite cocky and doesnt think he can be beat and right now I dont think he is too wrong.LOL.

 

No way is it nonsense! Put a Bully Kutta in a match with scratch and turn rules and I'll show you a cur. You use the term gameness far too lightly. If you've ever witnessed true gameness, I mean true gameness you wouldn't talk about it so lightly, much less attribute it to any other breed besides the APBT. And to answer your questions, fighting for 2 hours in the desert sun has nothing to do with gameness. Also getting killed in a dog fight does not mean a dog is game. If you believe these demonstrate gameness you are mistaken.

Gameness is an unnatural trait. It goes against all the rules of nature and self preservation. It is also an elusive trait that is not reproduced with any measurable consistency by people who have dedicated their entire existences to reproducing it. Just because a dog is a Ch. or Gr. Ch. does not mean it is game, it means it is a winner. To quote someone with much more experience than me on the subject, "some of the winningest dogmen of all time wouldn't know a game dog if it bit them in the ass." Winning does not equate to gameness.

Gameness occurs in scratch and turn rules. When a dog who is being badly beaten is separated from the other dog, faced away from the other dog, given time to gather itself, recover slightly, and contemplate the circumstances. The dog is then given the opportunity on his own whether to continue even though it is no longer in his best interest. No one throws their dog across the line. The dog makes a conscious decision to continue on his own or not to continue. It's up to the dog. Throwdown, ghetto style rules, fight em' 'till they die does not recognize gameness.

In closing, I have never witnessed true gameness first hand. There are not many who have. I've had it described to me by and "oldtimer" who has witnessed it first hand and it literally brought a tear to his eye. The dog in question was picked up and saved by it's owner after this display. There is no shame in picking up a game loser. Gameness is an ever vanishing trait. As dogmen breed more towards barnstormers and ability, gameness may disappear all together, lost to the APBT for all time. I don't blame people though, as there is a lot of money on the line. It sure isn't like it use to be when money wasn't everything.

 

It will be closed with this post, good post Toddrock.