Big dogs.

Ok workman....think you are the one who like to cross a great dane with a Bulldog to get a better hogdog...im right? If not correct me. Well, some weeks ago another guy on here jumped in for tosas...he sayd a smaller APBT had no chance against a good fighting Tosa and after that he sayd something that made me think...lol...he sayd the better tosas are the lightweight (the smaler tosas) ones. And by the way this guy claimed that Kuttas are poore fightingdogs.....he sayd many of them failed poore against tosas in Japan. Well I heared much of this Bully Kuttas....at first i thought they are some young mixhybrids....but then respectable People told me that this Kuttas are a very old bred. Well if this is true im sure that this dogs are the reason for the white color in ouer bred...and not the old english white terrier. However that may be......from my Point of view the APBT is the only true and real thouroghbreed if we talk about fighting as a genetic task. Workman you talked about videos and pics....well I dont say that you dont tell the trues but there are People out there who realy want to know it from first hand...and they want to see this live....they have other laws in her country.You know what this People do? ( for example in east europe or in russia)......they simply make mixed matches.......and believe me...lol...that a well bred Bulldog was beaten by a tosa or Bully kutta....that is realy rare to the vanispoint! Ask People with first hand experience...like Japangame...a member on here who lives in Japan and has Bulldogs. And dont mix a great dane with a Bulldog...its like throwing a peace of gold into a mountan of shit. God blees you workman.

 

Yes and I think this is realy the biggest stuff you can get....the real , true Giants .....sixty to seventy five Pounds....but not 105 lbs...

 

Workman, references of "catch weight" has nothing to do with "catch dog". The term is used to infer pit weight. Usually both combatants (historically) scale in at the same weight but that is not the case under a "catch weight" agreement.

 

Not like this matters though....but if you have two dogs of equal gameness, stamina and ability the bigger one will always win....

I have seen a 120 lbs. Presa crush a very good 60 lbs. pit...very fast....so fast that gameness never came in to question...cause the dogs eye was lost....this was in about 30 minutes....I have also seen a 140 Cane Corso's do the same....when they fight they seem to be more interested in killing the animal in front of them.....

I am sure if a dog could with stand that initial charge they could hold on to make the bigger dog quit and not scratch....but the fights I saw the pits were to damaged and the owners picked them up...

broken legs...and bones in general...

here is a pic of the Cane I had at about 7 months he was 85 lbs. +

his father was about 130 lbs. and could work a spring pole....hard....

I don't have him anymore gave him to another guy for breeding....

these dogs are so not like pits...they need to be socialized ....a lot or they will be a handful....

 

That's cane is a pretty dog, not my cup o tea but pretty none the less.

 

We are overlooking a few facts. #1 I dont know much about bully 's, but id be willing to bet that most of the info on them is not quite accurate. If they are soooo bad a$$ why arent they in america?? People have money and access to the dogs in America im sure. They arent the holy grail obviously. If they were people would been whipping pits with em in America at catch weigth all day making $$$$$$. Most info is probaly legend and folklore with a little edited video to back it up. What rules do they use with the Bullys'??? Do they fight to the death??


I KNOW Tosas dont fight to the death so.......Its impossible to determine just how game they are. Therefore they would get Dq'd in my book. Im an owner of working type Presas and bulldogs so let me tell you...Id be willing to put a few of my dogs up against an apbt of comprable size or an AMbull in ANY and I mean ANY form of competition. 120 lbs or so and will easily jump a 7 foot wall with grace. VERY AGILE and if conditioned well, GREAT WIND for a big dog.

YIS

 

This is just info if anybody wants it:

http://www.moloss.com/brd/ab/b017/history.html


http://www.moloss.com/brd/ab/b017/impfacts.html

 

Oh yeah I know Presa's are bad ass....a 50 lbs. pit would have to have a hell of a bite and a good first hold...to wait out the storm....or they would get shaken like a rag doll...

i don't think many people have seen Presas in person ...working....or fighting...what a site and power....

yes gameness can only be tested by taking something to the edge of it's life...but the pit vs presa fights i have seen didn't go that long....

though i never got the chance to see Presa vs Presa...and I don't associate with that crowd anymore...

 

I would be real careful using statemnets with words like "always" in them. Because that one word automatically makes your statement false. However, even if you said the bigger dog will win the majority of the time, you will also be false. A 100lb dog, although have size & brute force over a 45lb conditioned dog, will tire much more quickly & unless it "wins" in the first 15-30 min., will go on to lose. And there are many many statistics to back that up. (i.e. there's a reason why sumo wrestlers don't do well as running backs in the NFL )

 

Ive had a few yard accidents between the bulldogs and the Presas. It always goes like this.....bulldog usually gets a skin hold on the neck...nothing but dewlap...bulldog stays in hold while getting his head chewed like a knuckle bone. I hate breaking up fights with presas involved cause they WILL bite someone trying to break em up. YIS

 

Tosas fighting is more of a wrestling match. They have so much skin and it doesnt appear that they're bite has that much of an impact on each other.

 

Alot of info about the BK is false. The gentlemen who wrote on the moloss website however is a true dogman from Paki and the person I get all my info from and trust. In all reality the Bk may be the oldest of the mastiffs and all the dogmen in pakistan that deal with the pure BK will tell you that it is the last direct descendant of the old war dogs.

I have pictures of a game apbt getting mauled by a sage kochee in a tournament in pakistan as well as a video of an apbt that would have been killed in europe while fighting a tosa if the owner wouldn't have stopped it. I also have many pics of light and middleweight tosas beating apbt's in japan. Remember you are talking about game dogs here and when two game dogs fight and 1 has a weight advantage than they are more likely to win. I'm not saying the larger dog will always win but it is more likely. Realonebulldog I understand that you love your breed and I love the apbt as well but lets not let our love cloud are vision. Remember I have video evidence as well as pictures that support my claims. I'm not just making this stuff up for no reason. I have proof.

 

You may be right...but sorry I have seen to much ( not on video ) I am simply not able to believe that.....wich line was that APBT? I heard stuff like that many times.....and time and time again it was at least a fake......this big dogs are very impresive...for 20 or maybe 25 min.....yes if the BIG dog is V E R Y skilled and get a good hold....and then dont let go.....but that exactly is the problem, most times this big dogs are not so blessed Catcher, they let go and thats a bad mistake in a fight against a Bulldog! On the other Hand most Bulldogs are awesome catcher...in some cases they get one hold and made it with this hold. Think about how many energy get lost if souch a big dog fight...all the lbs....from the right site to the left..up and down....and so on.....No no im a believer....have seen small dogs in acction...big dogs in action....at least after the half houer distance you know why the best fighter are small...lol...yes maybe,in some cases will a small dog lose....but if we talk about well bred Bulldogs for sure not often.

 

In Japan the Tosas dont fight to the death. So how do we know that the Tosa would still win if left to go on??? I know they have a lot of honor for the dogs and wont let one get killed in a match. In the cases of a Tosa beating a Apbt, do they scratch em or let it go? Will a Tosa scratch with its LAST bit of life left in it??? Do they even scratch?? 99% of the time probaly not(dead game) cause they are bred for ability etc.. and not gameness first. Why isnt your Pakistani friend a rich man in America with his dogs?? Dont tell me that the dogs are impossible to import into America or that its a big secret. I just cant see why it hasnt been done(I have a feeling I know why). Thats why people travel from all over the world to get an Apbt from American breeders. Even the"hardcore" Russians, etc. have American stock recently in the peds.

Im not trying to insult your intelligence or your knowledge just hard to beleive that they havent been imported and used in anywhere but that region. YIS

 

big dogs big dogs what you gonna do what you gonna do when ppl talk about you

 

Well my pakistani friend does not live in America and his interest is not breeding dogs to import for a profit. Also I would like to add that these people are from a different culture than us in the states and many don't take kindly or trust Americans for various reasons. Also their are people like you who are to close minded to think of any other breed as being able to compete with the apbt. Fact, no breed is invincible. Furthermore they are not going to give anybody their best dogs. As far as large dogs being used in America their are just not as common as in other countries i.e. turkey, japan, pakistan. Their is an american named virgil on the tosa board that uses tosa's and does so quite effectively. Another question you may ask yourself is why aren't the apbt the predominant breed used as a fighter in japan, turkey, and pakistan? You see the question can be flipped to suit either side. Also let's suppose someone imports a BK into the states and uses it as a match dog. Who do they match it against an apbt? It will surely kill the apbt by it's strength, size, and gameness. So who do they match them with, the answer is nobody it would just be more suiting for a dogman to use an apbt in america as they are more common. The same statement can be flipped around for other regions. BK's have been known to have dead game and fighting to the death is perfectly exceptable in that region. Furthermore I would like to say that most dogmen in the states do not fight their dogs to the death. I will post some pics of some bully's fighting to show you that they can and do damage each other. IMO a tosa is just ok as a fighter. They can beat other nonfighters their size but sometimes lack endurance and often seem to just quit during a fight. Jeeperino pm me and maybe I can see if I can't change your opinion on some of these other breeds. If I do however I would like you to post on here and attest to the ability of these dogs.

 

Here are some pics of the dogs that people say do not have endurance nor game fighting in the extreme temperatures of the desert.

Edited do not post pics like this on this site, you have been warned Marty!

 

First and formost, it is against the rules of this site to be talking about dog fighting, and it is against the LAW here in the states to even own these pics and vids you talk of, Please refresh yourselfs with the rules and laws

 

I do not own the vids they are public info and anyone can access, I just happen to no where to get them.

 

Just keep it off this site, thanks